The Philosophers' Cocoon

A safe and supportive forum for philosophers.

Owned & Moderated by Marcus Arvan (University of Tampa)

Contact: marvan@ut.edu

Blog mission & moderation policy

IMPORTANT NOTE on how to ensure anonymity in commenting
Job-Market Reporting Thread (2025-26)
Job-Market Discussion Thread (2025-26)

recent posts

about

Job-market discussion board (2019-20 season)

Given that the academic job-market is beginning to ramp up, I thought now might be a good time to start another job-market discussion thread. As readers may recall, each of the past two years, we have hosted two job-market threads:

  1. A discussion thread where job-marketeers can discuss and commisserate about the market, discussing particular job ads, the market in general, questions about materials, interviewing, and so on.
  2. A reporting thread where job-marketeers can share news about the market (i.e. first-round interviews being scheduled, on-campus visits, new hires made, searches that are canceled, etc.).

Although, like some other people I know, I think fixating too much on job-market boards can be counterproductive–both emotionally and in terms of time spent–I still think that discussion and reporting threads can play important purposes. They can provide candidates an outlet to share relevant information that might help them on the market, as well as a place to connect with and support each other, particularly (I think) when these discussions occur in a forum governed by a safe and supportive mission like our own.

So, then, without further ado I'd like to open this thread for job-market discussion for the remainder of the 2019-20 academic job-market season. Readers should feel free to discuss job-market matters as they see fit, provided the discussion conforms to the blog's mission. As a rough rule of thumb, readers are expected to refrain from posting aggressive comments that can be reasonably interpreted as undermining a safe and supportive environment. As moderator, I will intervene if need be to let people know why I have elected not to approve their comments, so as to keep the discussion positive.

A few final notes:

  1. Please reserve job-market news (i.e. interviews, on-campus visits, hires, etc.) for the job-market reporting thread, which I will open in a few weeks.
  2. A 'permalink' to this thread will be on the blog's right sidebar. –>
  3. Because of Typepad's functionality limitations (which only permits 100 comments before starting a new comment page), readers may elect to bookmark each new page of comments (or update their previous bookmark) as each new page emerges. I recognize that is can be frustrating to scroll through page after page to get to new comments, and I think this is the best solution (Typepad does have an option for incorporating 'Disqus' commenting, but I intensely dislike that format!).

Anyway, feel free to job-market-discuss away!

Posted in

202 responses to “Job-market discussion board (2019-20 season)”

  1. nobody

    Your discussion and reporting thread links are still pointing to last years’.
    Can I ask why have the reporting thread, which spreads information out that used to be centralized on the job market wiki? Now people will have to check both instead of just one.

    Reply
  2. Marcus Arvan

    Hi nobody: The links to last year’s discussion and reporting threads were intended to point people to those threads to give them an idea of what those threads were like. I’ve now removed the links to avoid confusion. This thread is this year’s discussion thread, and there’s a permalink to it on the blog’s right side-bar.
    In terms of why to have two threads, the simple reason is that these threads get very long, and serve different purposes. To save people the trouble of having to scroll through tons of discussion to find job news, I figure those interested in discussion can go this thread and those interested in news can go to to the other. I think this has worked well in past years!

    Reply
  3. anon

    FYI: I know the current VAP at Worcester State and while I do not know for sure, the current ad certainly reads like it could be for him.
    Not dissuading anyone from applying but worth mentioning I thought.

    Reply
  4. joe

    “I know the current VAP at Worcester State and while I do not know for sure, the current ad certainly reads like it could be for him.”
    I think people should never read too much into it. There is almost always an obvious reason for this overlap – the department has hired a VAP/lecturer in an area it has teaching needs. Either because the search they had failed and so they hired late in the season for a year, or they could not get other than temporary funding. Once they have funding (or new season comes), they run a search in the area. The temporary person looks just like someone “tailored” for the position but, in fact, he/she is rarely in a different position than others who aare applying for it. Very very often, the VAP is not converted to the TT and a new person is hired.

    Reply
  5. Marcus Arvan

    Another reason to not read too much into this: committees can be looking for very different things in a candidate when hiring for a temporary position versus a permanent position. When hiring for temporary positions (VAPs), a committee may care most about whether the candidate is a good teacher. When hiring for a tenure track job, research may be weighed much more heavily. My sense is that this is why people who look like they might be an “inside hire” are often not hired. They may have been regarded as a good candidate for a VAP but not as good of a candidate for a permanent job.

    Reply
  6. joe

    There is a significant drop in the number of published ads this year (so far), for the same time period (fisrt half of September). Almost 20%. Hopefully, things will pick up…

    Reply
  7. Anon

    Hi Joe, where did you get the numbers?

    Reply
  8. joe

    Philjobs – 1-16 September 2018, 58 job ads posted. 1-16 September 2019, 43 job ads posted. It’s actually 25% less ads in the same period.

    Reply
  9. Anon 2

    I agree that things are feeling slow right now, joe (especially for those of us that aren’t in ethics). That said, if you look at a wider range of dates, this difference may go down a bit. Searching for August 15-September 15, I see 91 jobs in 2018, and 82 jobs in 2019.
    (The August jobs are, as far as I can tell, mostly relevant – there may be a few “urgent for the fall” ads in there, but most of them seem to be post-doc / TT.)

    Reply
  10. Michel

    IIRC, the trend for the last few years has been for jobs to trickle in, generally at later dates. It’s just a consequence of the de-centralization of the JFP. I wouldn’t worry about it until January.

    Reply
  11. anon

    Also, I feel like higheredjobs has to included in any calculation as there are often jobs on there that are never posted to philjobs

    Reply
  12. postduck

    There are SO MANY jobs in the ethics of AI/Big Data/technology. I can’t say I know of more than a handful of people who actually work in that area, but those who do are certainly going to have a good year. This must be the new way that Philosophy Departments are justifying their existence to their universities: you need us to make sure your computer science grads don’t turn into Mark Zuckerbergs….

    Reply
  13. Anon

    postduck: I saw 4 jobs in that area (Northeastern, Toronto, CalTech, UC Davis). Have you seen more? Also, I don’t think it’s just a way of justifying existence to universities. Some people think that philosophy can really make a difference on these topics.

    Reply
  14. Joe

    4 is a lot comparatively (say, to Phil of action or German idealism). Also, the job market is still showing relative weakness compared to last year.

    Reply
  15. postduck

    Anon: Coastal Carolina, Utah, Scranton, Pontificia Universidad Católica de Chile, Notre Dame all mention data ethics in their posts in one way or another. That seems like a lot to me (by contrast, there have only been three jobs in my area, which I would have thought was considerably less niche).
    I honestly don’t know whether philosophy has a distinctive contribution to make in this field. But I strongly suspect that the interest in this area on PhilJobs has a lot to do with savvy dept chairs convincing their deans that they it does in order to get another tenure line. More generally, universities are making lots of investments in data science, comp sci programs, and I’m sure philosophy depts are able to make a good case for why they should get in on the fun. But hey, more jobs is good for everyone, so I’m not complaining (that much). Just noting a hiring trend.

    Reply
  16. Several years post-PhD

    I have a question – When applying for jobs from a TT position and several years post-PhD (more than 3), at what point is it appropriate to begin using someone other than your dissertation advisor as one of your three references? In my case, I’m not really in touch with my advisor anymore other than reference requests, and I have other people who can serve as references and are more familiar with my recent work and activities.

    Reply
  17. Few

    Several
    If you already have a TT job and you have been out 3+ years, I think it is fine to get letters from people other than your PhD supervisor. At one point, especially beyond entry level jobs, you should be having letters from the most reputable people who support you. I never knew any of my current letter writers even 5 years after my Ph.D. They are people who know my work well, and think highly of it.

    Reply
  18. Reluctant

    Dear Colleagues,
    This may be off topic but I’m curious to see what you would think about this question: is it wrong to submit job applications when you know you don’t stand a chance even for getting a skype interview but you do it anyway just to let people in your field know that you exist, trying to contribute to your field from the periphery despite low wages, no research support, and noone around who understand or value your work?

    Reply
  19. Mr sympathy

    Reluctant,
    If the situation you describe is accurate, the main wrong done is to yourself. You would be spending valuable time applying for jobs even you do not believe you are remotely qualified for. Your file, if it is thin, as you seem to describe it, will not leave anyone with a positive (or any) impression. So it is not worth doing.
    People who are not moving in elite circles (publishing in the highest regarded journals; invited to talk at conferences and in elite departments) who apply for jobs at Princeton, for example, do not bother Princeton (I would think) But they certainly waste their own time and resources.
    I would recommend that you try to publish a paper in a decent journal. That is a better use of your time.

    Reply
  20. Reluctant

    Mr. Sympathy,
    Thank you for your response… But I think you misunderstood me, I had to be more clear in my question… I did publish articles in top journals as well as others, that is what I meant by “contributing to my field.” I have earned master’s and doctoral degrees from American R1 universities but I am not an American and I work in a middle-eastern country with a non-AngloSaxon name. This puts me in an isolated position far away from the “elite” circles in North America or western Europe which lowers the chances of people in the center discovering my work let alone interact and maybe collaborate. This is why submitting job applications, I think, may be helpful in announcing to the “center” that I exist in the “periphery” and doing important work. The departments won’t be willing to invite me for campus visits because I’m far away, won’t bother to sponsor a work visa either, or will simply be too prejudiced to consider me a genuine candidate but they will at least know that I am here and worthy philosophy is done in the periphery as well.

    Reply
  21. Philosadjacent

    Reluctant,
    I think that Mr. Sympathy’s response here is still applicable. Specifically, your goal (exposing your work) does not align with the strategy (job application). The reason is that when reviewing dozens or hundreds of applications, no reader internalizes that much about any single applicant until the pool is narrowed. Moreover, the people reviewing the application may not be the best placed to take notice of your work.
    I think a better use of your time in this regard is to reach out to people directly in some way. You can share papers, ask questions about their papers, ask for copies of their papers that aren’t available in your library, submit to conferences, etc. Not everyone will respond, but lots will. I am an associate prof in a good place, and when people reach out because they like my work I’m over-the-moon (it happens, like, once a year). I haven’t started collaborations that way, but I have had very good conversations.
    I also think you may underestimate people’s willingness to interact based on geography.
    Good luck!

    Reply
  22. Reluctant

    Philosadjacent,
    I did do everything you suggest over the years but achieved no real results. But you’re right, I may be making the assumption that people, who are already prejudiced against non-western names and geographies, will carefully read through a job application, which really is a ridiculous assumption. I guess I was too optimistic, again… I will just have to accept the simple fact that the world of philosophy is biased against non-westerners and they will just ignore me… All I can do is hope that my articles will survive and some time in an enlightened future they will be read without prejudice…

    Reply
  23. Philperson

    Reluctant,
    Sorry to hear of your difficulties on the market. I know of famous philosophers who’ve said they wouldn’t have gotten a job in this very competitive environment. Hope you’re keeping your head up.
    One thing to consider is the strength of the department in which you earned a PhD., whatever the university’s overall ranking. Another thing is how many times you’ve been on the market, whether you’ve applied for post-docs and visiting positions or only tenure-track positions, and so on. And how strong your letters were (quality and how well respected the writers are) and publication trajectory (a paper in Phil Review is much better received than a paper in a strong but not spectacular journal).
    Being a non-Westerner might actually help in many applications, perhaps, or at least not hurt, though there are also some bigger associated obstacles such as learning a new system. But perhaps it would work against you in some places, though if this is because intolerance, you presumably wouldn’t want those colleagues anyway (or, at least, those on the search committee). In any case, our field often gets 200-800 applications for junior positions, so without knowing the very best of one’s competition, it’s hard to tell why one wouldn’t get a campus visit, etc. Five publications in strong journals looks great, but there might be competitors with three in the very best journals, or with fifteen, or with ‘only’ two pubs, but letters from famous philosophers saying they are the best philosophy student they’ve ever seen in forty years of teaching.
    So basically, it might just be a very crappy situation for almost all applicants. On the other hand, maybe you have good evidence that ‘the world of philosophy is biased against non-westerners.’
    For what it’s worth, I know of several philosophers from top-5 programs or other very good ones that together average maybe one campus visit every two years or so – so, some superb philosophers are getting no visits, sadly. I also know of some folks with books at top presses who still haven’t found a permanent position. Just a few quick thoughts, though – not to be depressing, but in case it’s helpful at all for perspective. Hope you can keep your head up. And I agree that if you are rationally confident that your application won’t meet with success, then skip it, even if it’s hard to know who’s reading it and whether it’ll catch someone’s eye (among, unfortunately, the hundreds of files). Wishing you the best of luck with everything.

    Reply
  24. joe

    Is the phylo jobs wiki still working?

    Reply
  25. Michel

    Joe,
    It was last year, although I think it had fewer contributions than in previous years.

    Reply
  26. LM

    Is anyone else having trouble finding the link to apply for the Memphis job?

    Reply
  27. KA

    Apparently the WUSTL job just doesn’t require a cover letter this year. That may be the first job I’ve seen which doesn’t.
    Anyone know if that was a mistake? Or a new policy of some sort?

    Reply
  28. VAP

    Loyola Chicago appears to be the first app of this season that requests mailed materials. I only saw one like this last year. I thought we were done with this!

    Reply
  29. anon

    If a job ad requests three letters, but does not specifically say to send no more than three, should one ever send more than three letters? Or would this be considered bad form?

    Reply
  30. on the jyerb market

    ^ I would be interested to know this as well. I’ve always sent a fourth letter.

    Reply
  31. Amanda

    Whenever it allowed me to, I sent more than 3. Sometimes way more. As far as I know this isn’t in bad form, unless they specifically say “no more” than 3.

    Reply
  32. 4th letter

    jyerb
    One thing people forget is that each letter they add to their file usually “lowers” the quality of your application. We may all be able to get three people to say great things about us as philosophers. But the fourth is a stretch. … and the fifth! Then the letters usually get a little thin. When I have seen six letters from candidates, the candidate starts to look mediocre. Their strong letters are eclipsed by the mediocre. And to make matters worse, one is left with the impression that the candidate has poor judgment. After all, they had these lack-luster letters sent. Do yourself a favor – send three letters only.

    Reply
  33. on the jyerb market

    Hello 4th Letter,
    Thank you for giving me something to think about.
    I think you’re right about no more than 4.
    Usually the first two letters are my main advisors. I feel I need them both, 1) because not having both might seem weird 2) I need both to explain why different parts of my projects are interesting.
    Then I have my teaching letter because let’s be honest, I’m not getting the Princeton job and neither am I going for those jobs.
    Now I don’t go to the most Leiterific school, but I have been able to secure a letter from one big name and I can’t help but try to help level the field, prestige-wise, by using that letter as much as I can.
    But I think you’re right, any MORE than 4 isn’t just overkill, but might hurt, (at least as an ABD)

    Reply
  34. In the know about Loyola

    It’s not a mistake: Loyola Chicago does seem to request hard copy, and the materials they ask don’t entirely overlap with what’s online. Apparently they couldn’t make up their minds about whether to go electronic or not and so they ask both! This will be so confusing for the search committee!

    Reply
  35. Amanda

    Well, for almost all of my applications I used 5- 8 letters, and I did very well on the market (by most standards, anyway.) I also know one other person who did the same, with the same results (He is the person that convinced me to use them all.) I guess we could be flukes. I do think it depends on how confident you are in the quality of a letter, but you should be getting someone trusted to read your letters, anyway.

    Reply
  36. Will Work for Tenure

    Amanda,
    Do you mean that you sent 5-8 letters on applications that explicitly requested exactly 3 letters or just on applications that indicated that candidates have the option of sending more than 3 (“at least three letters of recommendation”)?

    Reply
  37. Joe

    Each year I see more and more ads from German universities advertising PhD positions on philjobs. I wonder if they are aware that this is not a website to advertise grad programs to undergrads thinking about graduate school in philosophy. I know that being a PhD student in Germany is more like a job than like being a student, but that is hardly the relevant consideration. So the postings seem really misplaced to me. And I wonder if the people running the website make this clear to them (it does cost money to post the ad). Or maybe they advertise there nevertheless, in order to satisfy some HR requirement in their university?

    Reply
  38. Norseman

    Joe,
    I assume that the German universities doing this are trying to reach a larger applicant pool. In northern Europe, post docs and Ph.D.s are well paid, with pension contributions. They are, at least in many places, employees of the university. This may help explain the practice.

    Reply
  39. Joe

    Norsemen, I get that. But are undergraduate students looking at philjobs? You can try to reach wider applicant pool, but it seems to me that that is not exactly the place to do so…

    Reply
  40. Amanda

    I teach at a R1 program with PhD students, MA students, and undergrads that often apply to grad school. I checkout philjobs because I’m curious in what is happening professionally. It’s possible I’d recommend a German program to a student after seeing it in philjobs. Maybe even a PhD student looking to transfer. So maybe it isn’t the most direct way to spread the word, but it might help some. And as far as I know there isn’t an obvious alternative for posting such information, so maybe they are doing the best they can with the available options.
    Also, while undergrads probably aren’t looking at philjobs, lots of MA students are, and German programs are surely interested in reaching them.

    Reply
  41. curioserandcurioser

    Am I right in thinking that the University of Arizona job (AoS open, but interested in phl lang and ancient) published a few weeks ago on PhilJobs is now cancelled?!

    Reply
  42. anonymous

    curioserandcurioser: yes, the job was canceled. Very likely for budgetary reasons, given the state of things at the University of Arizona.

    Reply
  43. Joe

    Amanda: yes, I can see what you are saying. I guess here graduate schools in the English speaking word profit (well, maybe not ALL of them!) from something like PGR – a list with some sorting into specialties and so on, whereas German universities have no such comparable platform.

    Reply
  44. Anon

    Arizona has a new search – it is open, but rather than philosophy of language and ancient, they now look for something like philosophy & ethics of technology.
    Anonymous: what do you mean by “given the state of things at there University of Arizona”? Can you be more specific? Thank you.

    Reply
  45. Anonymous

    Anon: can you link to a job posting? I haven’t seen one.
    I don’t know a lot of details as I’m not affiliated with the department but from what I have heard there are financial issues at the University that seem like they would naturally affect the department’s ability to get lines. (Also might you be talking about the Arizona State job? Different university.

    Reply
  46. Anon

    Anonymous: this is the job – https://philjobs.org/job/show/14382
    I’m sorry, probably we meant different universities – I’m not very familiar with academic institutions of Arizona

    Reply
  47. Not An Aussie

    I would love an (urgent!) piece of advice, especially from anyone who has knowledge of the market in Australia. I had an online interview a week ago and they followed up last night by asking for letters from my letter writers. Before, on the application, I filled in three potential referees and clicked that they had permission to contact the referees themselves.
    From the email posted below, I think they want non-generic letters from two (only) of my three writers (I am not sure whether they are asking me to select two or they are asking for personalised letters or both). Does anyone have experience with such requests? Should I ask my letter writers to tailor letters to this position? Who should these be aimed at? (Do you think these are for HR? For convincing the Dean?) Is it familiar in Australia (or elsewhere) to ask for letters after the first round of interviews?
    Email below:
    “We would greatly appreciate if you could please contact your referees to provide two references only and ask them to e-mail these with the reference number […] in the subject line, directly to me on recruitment.admin@[…] as soon as possiable.
    Please forward a copy of the advertisement, and Academic Reference Guidelines (both attached) to your referees, as it will assist them in commenting on your suitability for this role.
    If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me or your recruitment consultant/partner directly.”

    Reply
  48. Past Marketeer

    Not An Aussie, I have no advice for you, only commiseration. What a nightmare. It does seem like they are asking for custom letters of reference. I have no idea why departments do this—do they really believe they are so special as to merit custom letters of recommendation, in preference to the hundreds of other schools that are hiring? What a joke.

    Reply
  49. JS

    Past Marketeer, I’m sure others will be quick to point this out but this sounds like it is a university level requirement, not a department one. I believe that in Australia, like the UK, departments are more constrained in things like this by university/government hiring policies.

    Reply
  50. Some hapless marketer

    Some of the NTT advertisements this year are amazing. The Texas Rio Grande one basically says they want you to be an exceptional teacher, who also is able to start new programs, do research, and contribute to their “bilingual, billiterate” mission. So basically, do all the things a professor does, plus do a bunch of other exceptional stuff. But do it all for less money and less job security than a TT job. And the Georgia AI lecturer job requires teaching graduate students.
    This is the future, they are just going to keep raising outrageous expectations, phase out tenure, and we will all be working precarious contracts if we are lucky. Meanwhile, the tenured people keep competing to make senior hires, and fighting about the best hiring practices, fighting over the arrangement of deck chairs while the profession sinks.

    Reply
  51. VAP

    I know it is ‘still early’ and ‘there are lots of jobs still out there’, etc. etc., but I am already starting to feel the despair creeping in as folks report getting interview requests for jobs I thought I stood at least a chance of getting an interview for.
    Of jobs I suspect either must have decided by now (and just haven’t been reported to the thread here) or have been reported by others, I am currently 1/24 on Skype interviews. (I’m not complaining about that 1, to be sure! I just thought, this being my third year on the market, I’d be possibly more competitive by now.)
    How do folks deal with this? I thought I’d be better at it by now, but it doesn’t really get any easier. I tell myself that it’s a crapshoot/numbers game/etc., but the truth is that some people are getting lots of first round interviews and I’m just not.

    Reply
  52. curious

    Without the Phylo wiki, it is very hard to tell the timeline of the current market. Do you think it is similar to the previous years? Or is it more dispersed/delayed?

    Reply
  53. Anon

    I have applied to 34 jobs, but I have to say that many of them had very late deadlines (just before Thanksgiving) or they are not expired yet. So yes, I think that the market is far more dispersed than the other years, or at least the past two years

    Reply
  54. Phylo Curious

    Does anyone know what’s up with the Phylo wiki? I tried to add several jobs a week ago, but they still haven’t appeared. (I’ve added jobs there in past years).

    Reply
  55. Candidate Number Five

    Hey, VAP. This is my fifth year on the market. I have worked a series of temporary positions. My publication record and teaching background gets better every year. My letter writers all say they’re only making my letters even better, which has been confirmed by my placement directors. Still, I get fewer and fewer TT interviews at places I would actually like to work every year. It seems like the second year was my best year–I had something like 6 or 7 first round interviews at places I would like to work. Last year I had exactly zero TT interviews at places I would like to work. I don’t know if that’s normal, or if I’m a special case though.
    In any case, here’s how I deal with it. (a) Have a back up plan in case nothing materializes in the spring. For me, that’s just having a healthy savings account built up from working decently-paying temporary jobs. You might not have that, but you can come up with a different plan. (b) Recognize that TT opportunities are still coming down the pipeline–probably not all of those 24 jobs have scheduled interviews, and some TT jobs haven’t even advertised yet. (c) Working a salaried temporary job is objectively not a bad outcome, and most of the ads for those jobs haven’t even come out yet. Although my TT interviews have dried up the past couple of years, I still get lots of VAP interviews at good schools with not awful salaries every year. (d) As Marcus has often mentioned on this blog, mindfulness is really helpful. I try to fully engage with what I am doing in the moment.
    I don’t know if that’s helpful. But just keep in mind that you are not alone. Lots of people are going through the same thing, and you’re not a failure. You got an interview! That’s more than me so far!

    Reply
  56. VAP

    Candidate Number Five: Thanks for your reply. It’s not exactly inspiring to hear that things are also difficult for you, but it sounds like you’re in a good place about it, which is something maybe I can strive to emulate.

    Reply
  57. R

    Not An Aussie, I don’t think you need to worry about having the letters of recommendation customized. That looks like a generic HR line to me.
    Bearing in mind that they’re asking for letters after you already had a Skype interview, which means letters didn’t play any role at all in deciding who to interview, I strongly doubt the letters will play any significant role in the remainder of the process. The letters are probably just an HR requirement. I think this is somewhat common in the UK and Australia.

    Reply
  58. Michel

    VAP: I was in a similar boat last year, and it ground me down a fair bit. To get just one interview when your file is way, way, waaaaaay better than in previous years, when you also got 0-1 interviews, is pretty demoralizing. It made me feel like there was absolutely nothing I could do to actually, concretely improve my lot. I don’t have any good suggestions for you, except to say that it’s totally normal, and you’re not alone in feeling that way.
    I got lucky very late in the cycle and snagged a long-term (and pretty decent!) local NTT job while I was in the midst of applying for non-academic jobs, and having that safety net under me as I apply going forward is pretty incredible. Not just for the luxury of applying selectively and all that, but just because it means I don’t have to feel that total dejection and despair again.
    I hope you get lucky, too. Good luck!

    Reply
  59. Amanda

    A lot of people complain when lecturers are not allowed to teach graduate students. We just had a complaint about that on this site recently. Lecturers jobs (assuming they are the permanent types, i.e. technically renewing contracts but unless you do something atrocious you stay for 20 years) can be very good jobs where you are just as much a part of the faculty as TT professors and where you get paid similar amounts (pay varies from school to school, of course.) The biggest pay gap is usually when someone is advanced to full professor, then they make significantly more than lecturers but not before that (at some R1s.) I don’t know the details of the Georgia one, but if it is a job like that it makes sense that you would teach grad students. And I would argue it would be messed up to not allow that, since if would be claiming that the lecturer isn’t good enough or qualified something. Usually in research schools grad teaching is considered a relative privilege that people fight over.
    Not an Aussie I don’t know anything about the Australia position. But I had avoided applying to many fewllowships that asked for custom letters. i was personally asked to apply to one this year. I only noticed at the last minute that they asked for custom letters. I wrote to the person and said sorry I worn’t be applying because I can’t ask for custom letters at the last minute. They told me that actually lots of people don’t use custom letters, and that even though it is specifically requested I didn’t really need to do it. So, whenever anyone asks for custom letters with at TT job I would at least attempt to above it happen, but just send a generic letter if it can’t happen and you will probably be fine.
    I am seriously annoyed I missed so many applications, though, because I didn’t want o bother my letter writers when I could have used a generic letter. Asking for custom letters is BS.

    Reply
  60. On the Market

    What advice do readers or moderators have about straight-to-campus interviews (i.e. no preliminary Skype round)? Preparing for this kind of interview seems unique in that you have no sense of the temperature (or temperament) of the search committee or department other than what can be gleaned from online research or second-hand research. Thanks for any thoughts.

    Reply
  61. Anon

    On the Market: is it for a European job or a North America job?

    Reply
  62. On the Market

    It is for a North American job.

    Reply
  63. Also on the market

    I will let On the Market answer but I have similar questions about a North American job.

    Reply
  64. Anon

    On the Market: in that case, I cannot help you – the flyouts that I had in North America were always after a skype interview. In Europe they usually go directly to campus visits, but they are not visits as in the US: you just show up at a specific time and place, you interview, and you go home.
    May I ask if this is the Toronto job in phil and statistics? I was told that they will go straight to campus visits

    Reply
  65. Death to Skype

    On the Market: I don’t suspect much of this is any different than advice for a post-skype campus visit, given that you don’t learn much about departmental temps from skype alone. For an R1 job, read at least one publication by everyone you expect to meet on faculty. Talk to them about it. Practically everyone loves to know their work is being read and taken seriously, whatever their temperament might be.
    For a teaching job: prep the hell out of your demo. Do whatever it is you do in the classroom best. Use some technology, even if you don’t usually use technology. If they give you a choice of what to present, cover something that is novel, will have wide appeal given what you can learn from the department and its strengths, and is easily adaptable to non-traditional pedagogical methods.
    For ANY job: Be excellent to everyone you meet, whoever they are. Sound interested, inquisitive, but non-partisan when departmental politics arise. I seem to recall that Marcus posted a much more thorough list of guidelines for campus visits here.

    Reply
  66. Amanda

    Going straight to on-campus is the best way to do things. Skype is just a horrible platform for evaluating anything meaningful. As Trevor posted, he (and many others) will do great in some skype interviews and horrible in the others even though he and everyone else is the same candidate, i.e. two different schools will have completely different assessments of the same candidate based on their daily performance. I hope more places move to on campus first.

    Reply
  67. Amanda

    Also, I will add that I have an R1 job and I didn’t read a single article by the faculty for my flyout. They wanted to talk about my research. I would have felt like a weird suck-up if I had started talking about their articles. I don’t know, maybe I’m odd in that respect. But I will say it absolutely is not my experience that everyone likes having people talk about their work. I have read people’s work in advance and then meet them at conferences and they look at me like I have two heads if I try to talk about their work.

    Reply
  68. On the Market

    Thank you for these reflections Amanda and Death to Skype – very helpful!
    And to Anon on 12/5: It is not the Toronto job. Best of luck to you on that one!

    Reply
  69. anon

    Hi, does anyone know when the postdoc season starts? I’ve seen a few postings on philjobs, but I’m curious if they tend to be listed in the second round with VAPs.

    Reply
  70. anonaswell

    anon: my sense from previous years is that the postdoc calendar varies a lot, both as far as when they are posted (which is spread from Oct all the way to April) and when they get back to you (for getting back, though, they seem to stick to set deadlines better than tt jobs, but sometimes there’s deviation).
    Also, on another point that has come up, my experience with on-campus interviews is the same as Amanda’s (bot for R1s and teaching schools): I often read several papers from the faculty. But very seldom was I able to bring it up; and I don’t recall getting into extended conversations about it. More often, the conversations were about my work, which is as should be. I would still recommend reading these works, though, because it is a way to get excited about the job, and you want to be genuine about your excitement at the on-campus interview.
    Still on the market, though (so take it for what it’s worth)!

    Reply
  71. TT

    I think that reading faculty work is fine and can indeed be positive because it shows awareness and interest. But if one does, it’s probably best to say something specific about it and perhaps also to link it to one’s own research.
    I also think it helps to know or learn who is on the committee and how decisions are made, if reasonably possible. A Skype interview reveals this, but a straight-to-campus visit often does not.
    Most of all, prepare very well & be yourself!

    Reply
  72. NoOneLadyDetective

    This is a question about interviewing and answering questions, especially about research. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask!
    Last year my mentor and friends I practiced with for SKYPE interviews told me to keep the details out of my research spiel, focusing more on broad themes.
    My sense last year was that I edited myself down too much. In one interview, I got zero follow up questions about what I had said (!)
    Any suggestions for the level of detail to get into in response to the initial question, “Tell us about your research?”
    Btw, I’ve got several research areas, though one is dominant, so best to just talk about the dominant one?
    Thanks for any tips! Great resource here.

    Reply
  73. just a dude on the market

    “My sense last year was that I edited myself down too much. In one interview, I got zero follow up questions about what I had said (!)”
    Who knows. It’s just one data point. Maybe they had a policy of not asking followups. Maybe they just weren’t interested.
    If they just weren’t interested, it’s not a question of the level of detail, but overall framing and which details you gave them. You have to know your audience and pitch your work at a level they will find engaging. I don’t mean that if your work has nothing to do with X and you’re talking to a bunch of X-ologists you should find some made-up connection to X, but, like, you’ve just got to know how to pitch your stuff in a way that different audiences will find engaging.
    If you’re really good, you should have a 3-4 sentence pitch of your work that will grab most people’s attention and automatically lead them to certain followup questions you’re prepared to answer. E.g., “I argue X, because Y, while relying on data Z”, which naturally leads to: “But then how do you respond to P, and what about problems Q and R?”.
    A good pitch requires throwing away your specialized training and expert grasp of the subject. Think back to how you conceptualized problem at the outside when still a student and why it gripped you back then.

    Reply
  74. Job hunter

    I don’t know what happened to the phylo wiki, but I found the following page, which seems to have taken over.
    https://academicjobs.wikia.org/wiki/Philosophy_2019-20

    Reply
  75. Just Got Rejected

    Does anyone know of an up-to-date version of this report (or something like it)?
    https://www.philosophynews.com/post/2013/10/02/Will-I-get-a-Job-Graduate-School-Philosophy-Placement-Records.aspx

    Reply
  76. Yetagain

    As I spent several (unsuccessful) years on the market, I applied to several positions that were a perfect fit for me, I had pubs in top journals, but I never was successful. Many times, I checked the departments’ faculty rosters after the search was over and I found they hired people with no pubs or just one, but they had western names and I did not.
    At this point, I am definitely convinced that in the market there is a racist bias against non-westerners. There is only one way to deal with this racism and it is the same thing that made it possible for me to publish in the top journals: make the whole application process blind…

    Reply
  77. Amanda

    Lots of journal reviewing isn’t blind, even if it claims to be. And the same would be true of job application packages. It would be even easier to know in job application packages because the CV would give a lot a way. With journals, “no-name” people can be successful and blind review helps because the people who are known to reviewers are typically not the non-name people. So there is a bias in blind journal reviewing that helps the connected, while still giving a shot to the unconnected that might not be there otherwise. I dont’ think this would work with applications, because the CV would be enough to induce bias if it included PhD granting institution and some other things.
    Anyway, I am a bit skeptical of the claim that there is an obvious bias against non-westerners. I am sure it happens sometimes, but lots of other people can, and have, said something similar to what you just said.
    “I saw who so and so hired, and I have a way better publication record than them, therefore I am convinced that I didn’t get hired because of the bias against….
    1.Men
    2. Non-prestigious degree granting institution
    3. persons who lack famous letter writers
    4. People with children
    5.Those who lack social connections
    6. Religious people
    7. Non US degrees
    8.Older people
    9.conservatives
    I am sure all of those people are right some of the time. But it drives me a bit crazy when we have said, over and over again, publications are not the only thing that matters in an application, not at R1s and definitely not at non-R1s, yet people continue to point to comparative publication records as it it was some type of proof the search committee didn’t hire based on a legitimate process. For better or for worse, all of these other things matter, or hiring, in no particular order:
    1.Teaching experience
    2.Creativity of your publications and research plans
    3. Prestige of your PhD institution
    4. quality and prestige of your PhD institution
    5. How well your research area really fits the hiring needs
    6. How well you overall fit the hiring needs
    7. Service work
    8. Quality and prestige of your letter writers
    9. Ability to bring in grant money
    10. your potential to be a good colleague, how personable you are, etc.
    11. Whether the applicant has some random quality that the search committee members themselves don’t care about, but that the administration does care about.
    Anyway, there could be bias against non-western sounding names, but it is not something I have noticed. I find it much more plausible there is bias against foreign degrees, especially non-western degrees.
    However, there is just a lot of different groups that can complain about unfairness in hiring, but there typically isn’t a lot to go on with those accusations that doesn’t depend on odd statements about what sort of candidates are clearly better. Each department has very unique needs, and it is very hard to claim you know that you were a better candidate just by looking at the CV of someone they hired.
    Another problem with this thesis is there are lots, and lots of westerners with amazing CVs /publishing records that have been on the market for ages, and lots of non-western persons who have jobs. So being western and having a great publication record is not enough to get you a job, and being non-western isn’t enough to stop one from getting a job. Yes, this is compatible with systematic bias against non-westerners, but I would need to some some type of collective body of research to be convinced.

    Reply
  78. Yetagain

    Yetagain here:
    My phd is from a highly ranked American R1, my thesis advisor is an award-winning, prominent philosopher in our field.
    I have 6 years of teaching experience at both undergrad and grad levels with very good student evaluations.
    So, in addition to my pubs in top journals and their citations, I also have other qualifications that make me a very good academic.
    The problem is when you have about 300+ applications on average for one position it is next to impossible to prove bias against any demographic.
    In fact, if I had the kind of evidence that would convince you, or anyone else in our field, I would sue…

    Reply
  79. On the Market

    I really appreciate Amanda’s (non-exhaustive, but quite comprehensive) list of potential attributes that are considered by hiring committees, and how nebulous the hiring process can be: there is a certain je ne sais quoi to what makes an attractive candidate, and yes this is probably fed by implicit, internalized biases of all sorts: against men, in favor of men, against minorities, in favor of minorities, against women and especially women who do or might have kids, or in favor of women, etc.). Remember when all the white men complained that they weren’t getting jobs because people were trying to hire not-white-men? You don’t have to remember, because people still complain about this currently, too.
    One thing I would add to the list, that is hinted at in #5, is whether one specializes in an area that is in demand for teaching/research, as being excellent in niche areas might still yield relatively few jobs that fit your profile, or relative few departments in which one would be a good fit.
    Yetagain: #s 2,5,6,7,9,10,11 on Amanda’s list all speak to additional factors that are beyond prestige and teaching and publications, but are really relevant, and are not related to identity markers or (necessarily) discriminatory features about a candidate. Maybe thinking about those additional items on the list, and how you can feature them more in your application materials, will help you stand out in the candidate pool in addition to your prestigious PhD and recommendation letters and publications.
    I am sure you, like many of us, are a great academic. Like you say, in pools of 300+ there are probably dozens, maybe hundreds, of great academics all vying for one slot. Best of luck out there.

    Reply
  80. Yetagain

    On the Market,
    Thank you for your kind words…
    But what am I supposed to do if SC members just skip the rest of my materials once they see my non-western name on my cv? Because, I do believe that’s what happens…

    Reply
  81. Amanda

    If there is some type of bias against non-westerners, which is possible, I would be just shocked beyond belief if it manifest by someone seeing a non-western name and then not looking at the CV./application materials. Whether they are correct in their self assessment or not, 95% of academics (my estimate) like to think of themselves as kind, liberal, progressive humanists who would never just blatantly exclude a non-westerner based on the name. So even if it was only for their own sense of deceived self-worth, I doubt that would happen. Besides, lots of Americans have non-western names. You really think search committees are openly biased against just the name? You know there are lots of people with non-western names in US philosophy departments, especially the top ones, right?
    And yes, you are right, with 300 plus applications, you cannot prove that non-western discrimination is the reason you didn’t get a job. But by the same or similar reasoning, you also cannot know, and I would argue cannot justifiably believe, that this is the reason.
    This market, sadly, leaves a lot of incredibly accomplished and talented philosophers without jobs, and even more so without the jobs they want. Yetagain you have a TT equivalent job, correct? I think the thing you had issue with is that your job is just not as prestigious as you would like? Or was it not the location you would like? Many people would be thrilled to have any permanent position.
    I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. It’s possible you’re right. And if you are right, you are correct that there is nothing you can do. So if this is what you believe, then just decide if you can be happy in the profession the way things are, or if there is another path that might make more sense for you and that is immune to the type of bias you are worried about.
    FWIW, I have been on search committees where seeing non-western names would absolutely make us pause, sit-up in our chair, and take the application more seriously. Certain kinds of non-western names, of course. I don’t know which kind of name you have, so maybe it wouldn’t be relevant.

    Reply
  82. Amanda

    FWIW, again, at my own department 20% of TT faculty have non-western names. None of these professors are full, they are all assistant or associate, so the hiring was done with the last 3-15 years.

    Reply
  83. Yetagain

    Amanda,
    You seem to suggest that I should just accept the bias and shut up or just leave the profession.
    I will do neither.

    Reply
  84. Yetagain

    If that is not what you suggest, then please explain what you mean by this paragraph you posted above:
    “I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. It’s possible you’re right. And if you are right, you are correct that there is nothing you can do. So if this is what you believe, then just decide if you can be happy in the profession the way things are, or if there is another path that might make more sense for you and that is immune to the type of bias you are worried about.”
    Maybe I misunderstood…

    Reply
  85. Yetagain

    There may be nothing I can do to correct the bias. But I don’t think keeping silent about it is the right thing to do, neither for me nor the profession.

    Reply
  86. Malcolm

    I hope I’ve misunderstood something in the foregoing conversation. The idea that someone’s name should have anything to do, positively or negatively, with evaluation of their application or how much attention it is given is epistemically and morally suspect.
    On the problem with positive stereotypes in philosophy, in particular with regard to Asian philosophers, see Carole J. Lee’s piece here: https://faculty.washington.edu/c3/Lee_2014.pdf
    (Of course “Asian” is not a heterogeneous category and the “model minority” stereotype doesn’t apply equally to all Asian people, nor does it work the same in every context.)

    Reply
  87. Malcolm

    Misnegation alert! Should read not a homogenous category

    Reply
  88. anon

    Amanda, I’m not the original commenter and I don’t know you, but your comments on this issue strike me as insensitive.
    The following comment in particular has unsavoury implications: “FWIW, I have been on search committees where seeing non-western names would absolutely make us pause, sit-up in our chair, and take the application more seriously. Certain kinds of non-western names, of course. I don’t know which kind of name you have, so maybe it wouldn’t be relevant.”
    So, what “kinds” of non-western names does the hiring committee at your department take more seriously? Which ones does it not take seriously?
    It’s one thing to claim that given how rough the job market is, many people don’t land a permanent position at all, and that having a non-western name might in some cases have been a partial contributor to that outcome. Who knows? That seems like it can be true. What doesn’t follow is that one would have a permanent job if one didn’t have a non-western name. I’m not sure that I endorse this, but I take it that this might have been your point in listing additional considerations that hiring committees take into account when looking at an application. But I think it’s possible to make both of these claims without 1) sea-lioning the above commenter by denying that there is evidence of bias on hiring committees (where is the evidence that there isn’t?) and 2) denying that philosophers can be biased. It seems like a fallacy that someone is not susceptible to implicit bias merely because someone is a “kind, liberal, progressive humanist.” That might in a lot of cases actually make someone more susceptible to implicit bias.
    Finally, this is also troubling: “And if you are right, you are correct that there is nothing you can do. So if this is what you believe, then just decide if you can be happy in the profession the way things are, or if there is another path that might make more sense for you and that is immune to the type of bias you are worried about.”
    It seems that your response to concerns about bias and prejudice in the profession (at least based on your comments here) essentially boil down to “go with the status quo or leave” instead of “we should dig deeper to see what’s going on and try to do better.” Maybe that’s actually what you think. If so, that is disheartening.
    I can see that you are trying to be helpful, but you might want to rethink some of what you’re saying here, and at the very least reconsider your phrasing.

    Reply
  89. Amanda

    I am not familiar with any evidence of bias against non-western names. I am happy if someone would show me some. I said, after all, that it is possible there is this bias. So if you want to accuse me of “sea-lioning” please provide me of evidence of bias against non-western names. I am not denying that there is evidence. I just don’t know. And no one on this thread has provided any, to my knowledge.
    How on earthy am I denying that philosophers can be biased? Of course philosophers can be biased! I said at least 3 times that it is possible that the bias against non-westerns exists.
    I would never suggest that philosophers cannot be biased. In fact, my own-personal belief is that they almost certainly are biased in all sorts of bad ways. However, (1) I think it is much different thing to say that philosophers are biased and then to say that this bias explains why someone, of any particular group, is not getting a job. There is a huge leap from one to two because there are so many factors in getting a job, and bias is just one of these factors. (2) I do not think the bias manifests by blatantly throwing out a CV if it has a non-western name. I think it would be much more implicit. There might be a handful of people who just toss out CVs like that, but my experience suggests it is low. If you have other experience that suggests otherwise, or even better, evidence that suggests otherwise, I am happy to hear it. That is not implicit bias, that is explicit racism. Again, anyone is welcome to either, (1) show evidence that there is a systematic bias against non-westerns , and (2) that this is not only a bias, but that it is explicit.
    There are plenty of things we should try to do better about. But unless we have evidence that something is happening, then I am not sure what we are supposed to try and do.
    My comment about choosing to leave the profession is not that anyone should “shut-up.” I think it is fine to occasionally vent about one’s frustrations, even if there isn’t particular evidence about it. However, to go beyond the occasionally, and to repeat again and again that philosophers are biased against non-western names with nothing other than “I have a better CV” is not fair. It is not fair to:
    1. The philosophy profession, and philosophy professors, who are being accused of racism without any evidence. Racism is an awful thing, and people shouldn’t be called that without good reason. Or at least not more than occasionally when someone needs to vent. Moreover, accusations of racism without evidence might fuel weirdos who think all cries of racism are false. There is lots of racism. It is real. And we should try to stop it. But conflating suspicions with actual evidence is not helpful.
    2. It is unfair to people who did get TT jobs. Whoever got the jobs that yet-again did not get are essentially being accused of getting the job not on their merits, but on their ethnicity or at least on the immoral behavior of the search committee. It is unfair to accuse them of that without evidence. Some of these persons are probably members of underreprestened groups, others had to overcome not being one of those members. Basically I suspect they are all talented hard-working philosophers, because nearly everyone hired these days are talented, hard-working philosophers. Being told, “you don’t deserve you’re job” is not very collegial.
    My main point with leaving the profession is this. Yetagain said that he believes he is not hired because of racism, and that there is nothing he can do. I just think that if that is someone’s belief, for their own good, they need to decide if the philosophy profession is worth it for them. And if you leave, you still can talk about it and don’t have to shut up. Either way you can keep talking. But being part of the system that judges you by your ethnicity and not your work sounds pretty terrible. I don’t think anyone should have to put up with that. Of course, if someone wants to stay and to fight the good fight at their own discomfort, then good for them. But yetagain said there is-nothing he could do about it. So I guess I’m not sure why someone would stay if they think their efforts won’t help. But if you want to stay, then stay. Nothing wrong with that. But if you are going to accuse people of doing very bad things, and to accuse them of that repeatedly, then please provide some evidence. I don’t even mean empirical, study-based evidence. You can start with something weaker than that, but at least something (and no, I don’t think having a better CV counts.)
    I”m serious, if anyone does have evidence re non-western name I will be happy to see it and I will revise my position. My position, by the way, is that there is probably some bias against non-western names but I am agnostic leaning towards doubtful about whether it is systematic and statistically significant.
    Malcom: I never said it was good that some people were biased in favor of a certain name. I just said it happens. Admin put pressure on faculty to hire members of diverse groups. This isn’t a secret. I have seen it happen at lots of institutions and I have said that before. Anyway, non-western name might be a sign that someone is a member of an underrepresented group. Of course, it’s not fool proof, so further inquiry might be needed.
    Also, I have said before that ultimately I am not in favor of preferential hiring. However, I understand the viewpoint and can sympathize with it. So I find it odd that you act shocked anyone would hold that view. Or is that just because of the name and that the name is not 100% correlation with diversity? If so then, okay. But the name is just something that might catch someone’s eye, it doesn’t mean more than that.
    I don’t mean to sound rude to anyone. And the job market is full of injustices all of which we ought to fight against. But when some people who are understandably frustrated and in rough positions accuse other people of evil things without evidence, I myself feel in a rough position. I think we need to be very careful with these kinds of claims. For the last time, I am not denying that the bias exists. I am denying that the evidence presented is enough to confidently make the assertion.
    FWIW, I would have no problem with this, “I am worried that a non-western bias is present in US academia and that it sometimes results in persons being unjustly denied a job. I think we need to look at this more seriously and see if we can do something to prevent it.”I think a claim like that is more than reasonable.

    Reply
  90. Malcolm

    Amanda,
    I suppose I did misunderstand, then. Here’s how I understood you:
    “I have been on search committees where seeing non-western names would absolutely make us pause, sit-up in our chair, and take the application more seriously. Certain kinds of non-western names, of course.”
    Since you said “make us pause” I thought that implied that you were one of those who would be caused to pause, sit-up in your chair, and take an application more seriously based on non-western names (and, as you then said, not others). Since you didn’t cancel the implicature, I, apparently incorrectly, took you to be saying that on seeing e.g., two non-western names, one of a certain kind, another of another unspecified sort, you along with others, would sit up and pay attention to one of them, and take that one more seriously than the other. I still fail to see how that wasn’t communicated by what you wrote, but I’ll take you at your word that what you said isn’t what you meant.
    This bias, which you are distancing yourself from, thankfully, struck me as the very kind of bias which I referred you to in the APA Newsletter, which has plenty of evidence of bias against various ethnicities, often suggested, as you say, by names. If by “non-western” you include Asian, then you’ve been provided such evidence. (FWIW, another relevant link would be https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0021-9029.2006.00035.x although at this point, just searching for “name stereotype” and “hiring” or something similar should get you on the right track. Whether you are convinced by the studies and testimonies of individuals is another thing. )
    The egregious thing to me in the practice you described was the idea that some non-western names, on their own, are enough to take an application “more seriously.” Since there are studies suggesting a strong East Asian positive bias in contexts, and conversely, other Asian names, for instance South or Southeast Asian, do not have such a bias, I found the idea that carving up “non-western” based on some implicit ideas about what names connote to be a real problem. (Where does a “Lee” go? Or a married person with their spouse’s Anglophone name?) And as I took you (again, it sounds incorrectly) to be endorsing this approach, I thought it was not only unhelpful to the original commentator, but also a real problem, even on the idea that you want to increase diversity of a certain sort! (I think this further generalizes to e.g. sexual orientation, gender history/trans status, disability status, and more, but that’s a larger discussion for in person or a carefully written paper.)
    Whether the original commentator has been the subject of bias, no one on this blog is in a position to know. Even empirical studies about tendencies to respond to names in a certain way wouldn’t tell us that. It would give us statistical patterns, but the peculiarities of their job searches are opaque to us. The counterfactual claim that they would have had a job if they had a “western name”? Also, no one here can know that, one way or the other.
    You are absolutely right that there are injustices to fight against. I’m not sure about the accusations of “evil things” but I hope I’ve clarified why I took you to be endorsing the practices you describe. And what you describe in the last few sentences is indeed a claim that I think is reasonable, so we may agree in more ways than was initially apparent.

    Reply
  91. Yetagain

    It would have been wrong to tell African Americans to leave the US “for their own good” because they couldn’t prove prejudice in Jim Crow south beyond a reasonable doubt.
    I will not leave professional philosophy just because I cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt my rightful suspicion that there is bias in it. I am not asking for permission to stay from any gatekeeper. Philosophy is in noone’s monopoly. By the way, it’s not just the job market; I didn’t even start about desk rejections of papers with no good reason.
    As I said above, if I had that kind of proof I would’ve sued already. But in the current state of the market, it is next to impossible to prove bias against any demographic. But this does not mean that it doesn’t exist or people should keep silent about it or leave just because raising these rightful suspicions disturb some people’s rosy views of their world.

    Reply
  92. Yetagain

    In addition, I did suggest something that could potentially help with prejudice. I proposed to make job applications blind with for instance non-named cv’s, research statements, cover letters etc. It was just the first thing that I could think of and I’m sure other, much better remedies can be found. But this suggestion was summarily dismissed above…

    Reply
  93. Amanda

    PS Anon: I am familiar with studies that show businesses discriminate against African American sounding names, and also resumes that include LGBT associations. But I don’t think that has much to do with academia and non-western names, as academia hiring is very different than business, and “non-western” is a pretty broad category.

    Reply
  94. Nicolas

    Yetagain, can you clarify what you mean by “no good reason” for desk rejections? As you’re probably, or should be, aware, most top journals reject most papers, including very strong ones, for all sorts of reasons—a majority being desk rejections at some journals. Many of them do that triple blindly. The whole process is such a lottery that “for no good reason” strikes me as either a platitude (it’s a lottery after all) or unfair (how do you know other papers are not rejected for no good reason but yours are?).
    Moreover, above you pointed out that you have several top journals publications, so I assume these were in triple blind journals, otherwise that would be some evidence that your name is no obstacle to making the first cut with editors. As others have noted, there’s just so much we don’t know. But you seem extremely confident that both your dossier and your papers deserved better, which might very well be the case. If you think some journals do engage in the sort of discriminatory review practices you allude to, it would be worth knowing. I don’t want to patronize racist venues.

    Reply
  95. Anon

    It would greatly help to know the rough % of non-Western applicants vs. the % of non-Westerner applicants who get offers. If there are many more Westerners who apply, it is rational to expect many more Westerners to get offers, all else equal.

    Reply
  96. A. Regular

    I’m white and male. My forename is not an Anglophone name. As a result, I am frequently misgendered, and even occasionally get comments like “but that’s a girl’s name!”–yes, even from professional philosophers. I wouldn’t be surprised if this misgendering has sometimes been to my detriment in job searches and other contexts, because I’m certain it’s often counted against women.
    My surname is western European, but not recognizably so because it’s weird. Instead, it’s routinely assumed that it’s Chinese. Including by philosophers, who have made all kinds of comments about it.
    Usually it’s fine (it’s a totally weird name, after all!), but there have been many times when it wasn’t. One distinguished senior scholar once called me ‘slit-eyed’ (I have hooded eyes, not epicanthic folds, and that’s another frequent mistake people make). And when it’s discovered that I’m white and of recent European extraction, the remarks that people (including philosophers) subsequently make to me about Chinese people can be pretty dodgy. (Indeed, I once came across a letter of recommendation for a Chinese student applying to my PhD program which was… ugh. I think it was genuinely well-intentioned, but you wouldn’t believe the kinds of things it said.)
    So my anecdotal experience about what it can be like certainly is suggestive enough that I don’t doubt that name-based bias is operative in some searches. How exactly it operates, or at what level, or how prevalent it is, I’m not sure. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

    Reply
  97. Skype interviews are kind of awful!

    I’ve had my first couple of Skype interviews this season (finally), and it’s been kind of a mixed bag.
    One thing that gave me trouble was the multi-part/shotgun approach to questions, where a committee member asks four or five questions all in one go. I found that actually trying to answer all the questions being asked made be very flustered, because the questions themselves didn’t necessarily cohere with one another that well, and so my answer probably seemed all over the place. I’ve been told that what I need to do is to find a way to answer the question I wanted them to ask, and I’ve tried to do that, but my natural inclination (under stress) is just to answer the question being asked. Just one of my interviews relied upon what was clearly a standard set of questions, and that tended to go much better (although those were sometimes worded in a weird way as well).
    I was also generally surprised by how adversarial these interviews have felt. I was expecting to provide information about my research and teaching, but often the questions were framed as objections or criticisms, often coming from a particular ideological perspective. This is something I would have expected in a job talk Q&A, but I was kind of surprised to encounter it in a context when they’re supposedly trying to learn about me. It made me wonder why they even wanted to interview me at all. Philosophy’s adversarial culture and the high stress nature of job interviews is really a terrible mix.
    Anyway, I probably didn’t do all that well in any of them. And it’s a bummer, because I’ve worked really hard for years on my teaching and research, and on paper, I am as qualified as most of the people interviewing me. But then I get put in this awful, stressful situation for 45 minutes, get asked a bunch of surprisingly hostile, weirdly-worded questions, and none of that seems to matter.
    I hope that I can learn from these interviews and get a little better this sort of thing the next time around. But wow, interviewing really sucks.

    Reply
  98. Amanda

    Malcom: That’s fair. I often us the term “us” or “we” to refer to the philosophy profession, or my department, when I do not mean me personally. I am against favoring people, or disfavoring them, because of either their name, or their ethnicity. However, I recognize that my view is not winning the day in many institutions of higher learning. I have seen many search committees, ones I have taken place in and ones I have not, where there is extreme pressure to diversify the faculty. A few years ago this was a lot of women and minorities but I have noticed today it seems to be more focused on minorities. And “minorities” means ethnicity, usually not including asians but it depends on the school. Once again, I do not favor this. I wish it didn’t happen. But it does happen. That’s all I was saying. My point is that in some cases non-western names might hurt, and in other cases they might help. I think this is generally true of lots of other minority statuses. They hurt you sometimes and they help you sometimes.
    My comments about evil were not directed to you, Malcom. What I was calling evil was the practice yetagain was claiming was happening: throwing out cvs, without looking at them, because of someone’s perceived ethnicity. I don’t see how that can be anything but blatant racism, and I consider that evil.
    yetagain: I wasn’t trying to demand that you do something else. You are welcome to stay. I was just suggesting that you might be happier if you did something else. But this is your life. Of course, I don’t think it’s fair for you to make the accusations that you do, but you can keep making them, and others and myself can keep responding to you. As for Jim crow, I wouldn’t hold it against minorities living in racist cities today, or back then, or n the future, if these minorities decided to move because it would make them happier. While in some circumstances it might be admirable to stay, I don’t think anyone who has the option of leaving and being happier is morally required to stay. They can if they want to. But they are also well within their moral rights to leave.
    I think anybody who has submitted papers to journal feels they have been desk rejected for no good reason. I really think every single person thinks this. It has never occurred to me to blame it on one of my several minority statuses. But perhaps I am just not experiencing the same systemic issues.
    A. Regular: What you say doesn’t surprise me. And it’s wrong to treat anybody that way. I still think it’s a big step to go from that to people are throwing out CVs of non-western names without looking. I am a minority myself in more than one way. And I have heard a lot of bad things, insulting things, hurtful things, related to this status. In fact, I was invited to an important academic event and then quickly disinvited once I told them about my accommodation needs. Yes, that happened. I might go public with it, but I am still figuring things out. Notwithstanding, I don’t think I can draw any more conclusions than people are mean and will make unfair judgements about me based on ignorance. And occasionally I will miss professional opportunities. I do sometimes worry, now that I am more recognized in my field, that this will have other negative career consequences, but I really have nothing to base that on other than suspicion. I just don’t think it’s enough to make assertions about what might be happening in the profession as a whole, or really in any case except those in which I am directly involved and in which I have direct evidence. I am not against making general claims, this just isn’t a situation in which I think I have this evidence. And from what others have said, I don’t think others have evidence of systematic anti non-western name bias in philosophy hiring practices.

    Reply
  99. Amanda

    I think Skype interviews are pretty useless. And a lot of places are skipping them. I was offered 4 temporary jobs and 2 permanent jobs during my time on the market. None of those included a skype interview. I am horrible at skype interviews

    Reply
  100. J

    Skype interviews are worse than useless. They draw attention away from dossiers summarizing years of work and useful information and toward vivid but quite possibly meaningless information conveyed during a 20-40 minute performance in an environment bearing little relation to what matters for actual job performance. In my experience as a search committee member, people who are expressive and attractive get a big bump in interviews, and those who are shy and less attractive are hurt. Philosophers also tend to be foolish about debiasing, apparently thinking that they can correct for the influence of biasing factors just by being aware of the bias, or that biases just apply to dumb people. Interviews are bad, and the sooner the profession drops them, the better.

    Reply
  101. Marcus Arvan

    J: 100% right.

    Reply
  102. On the Market

    While I 100% agree with all the concerns raised regarding bias in Skype/Zoom/Video interviews, I also worry about not having any contact with a department to vet THEM before a longer and more comprehensive campus interview. I also worry that there are mutually bad fits that could have been avoided by mutual contact prior to a visit – is the solution phone interviews? What other mechanisms could improve the process without the pitfalls?

    Reply
  103. Amanda

    On the market. I don’t think skype interviews eliminate the potential bad fit. And I think most job candidates are desperate enough for a job that I would be surprised if it wasn’t an extremely rare circumstance in which a skype interview convinced someone to not take the job.
    I think via CVs and other application material, the job search committee can get a pretty good idea if someone is a horrible fit. Likewise, by looking at the add and other online info, candidates can get a good idea of whether the department is a bad fit. Moreover, in the rare circumstances in which this isn’t figured out, it almost certainly will be on the campus visit. And a department flys out 2-4 candidates, so there will be another candidate to choose from if it is a bad fit. I guess the job candidate would have made an unnecessary trip, but agin, I think it is very rare where a candidate would reject a job that they felt comfortable applying to and flying out to in the first place. We can’t control for every possibility in life.

    Reply
  104. OnTheMarket

    @Amanda: Agreed- it might not be a deal breaker for the candidate even if they Skype and get a “bad fit” vibe but then get an on campus interview request. I would think it worth still going to that interview (unless a disaster occurred during the Skype or the interviewers seems like truly intolerable humans). But I do think it makes it hard to take the temperature of the search/committee without that data going in, if you don’t Skype first. So I think there can be value for the candidate to have this layer. What I should say is: I (personally) found Skype interviews helpful as the job candidate, and definitely helped me learn important data that contributed to my search process. And are they also arbitrary and biased? Hell yes. To be clear: I am interested in the fit assessment from the candidate perspective, not the hiring committee perspective.

    Reply
  105. worsted

    This is my first year on the market and my results have been unexpectedly promising so far: 10 first-round interviews, 2 of which have resulted in campus visit invitations. But I am extremely burned out and unhappy. I have a hard time managing my anxiety and I feel like I can’t survive until the end of the job season. I keep thinking that I sent out too many applications, many of which turned out to be good enough fits to get me Skype interviews but not quite good enough fits to get me to the next level. When I was sending the applications it didn’t seem like it was much work to send the same material to yet another school, but I have found the doing of the Skype interviews to be terribly taxing. Even after having done quite a few of them, the preparation before each interview and then getting over the painful sense of cringe and obsessing over how it went afterward takes more than a day. And I actually think I have become worse in emotionally handling the interviews since I started, and I am worried that having overburdened myself will hurt my chances for positions that really are a good fit for me (some of which are still up for grabs). So part of me thinks I should be more selective as I go forward and even turn down some interviews if I don’t think I have a good chance in them and am not that excited about the position in the first place. But then again the job market is so terrible that I can’t bring myself to do that. The advice from people with more experience also seems to be that you never know what the search committees are looking for and you should take all the chances that you get. So I am wondering if anyone has any experience or advice about whether saying no to an interview invitation is such a crazy idea.

    Reply
  106. Marcus Arvan

    worsted: I empathize, as I was in a similar position my final year on the market. I turned down a few interviews for the sake of my own sanity. Given how well you’ve done on the market this year, it seems plausible you’ll do well next year even if you don’t get something permanent this time around. So I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Do what you feel like you need to do to protect your own well-being!

    Reply
  107. driving miss daisy

    Worsted,
    One thing you can do is not take the interviews so seriously. You may find this relaxed attitude actually leads to a better interview result, moving you on to the next phase.
    By analogy, I was very nervous when I took my driver’s test. Within the first minute the tester was very critical, leading me to believe that I had already failed. So I just said, I might as well just do the test now, as practice. To my surprise, at the end he said I passed!

    Reply
  108. Amanda

    On the market: Interesting. I’m glad you got valuable information out of them. I don’t think I ever did. But then again, I never got a campus visit after a skype interview. As things are now, some departments do them and some don’t. So maybe it actually optimal to have this variety, given different preferences, skills, and styles of candidates. Maybe. I still personally think eliminating them would be better. But I’m open to that other side.

    Reply
  109. Amanda

    Worsted: I would be more selective with your initial application. While, yeah, there is always that one in a million story of a job advertised in ethics that hired a metaphysician, I think those cases are extremely rare, and the vast majority of jobs are given to those who are a good fit – both re the speciality, and the research and teaching profile of the candidate in respect to the institution. So just apply to those that are the best fits. The problem with applying and then turning down interviews, is that first, there will be incredible pressure to take the interview if offered. There is not any pressure like that re just applying for the job. Second, even if you do resist the pressure and turn down the interview anyway, the stress it caused you to do that might be as bad as the interview. Even more, word might get around that you turned down interviews, which in many respects that I won’t go into, can be a bad thing. I feel very strongly that candidates should not apply to jobs if they are very confident the location or the particular position would make them miserable. Once a job is offered, there is all the pressure in the world to take it. I feel very lucky that a particular job to which I had a flyout to was never offered to me, because I would have taken it and been miserable.

    Reply
  110. Indignant

    Anyone email the search committee and never hear anything back at all? I know they must get a lot of emails checking on applications but I just find it despicable that someone wouldn’t quickly fire off a response, even if it’s entirely uninformative. It’s very unprofessional to completely ignore emails from candidates. What do you guys think?

    Reply
  111. Marcus Arvan

    Indignant: totally unprofessional, but sadly not at all surprising. :/

    Reply
  112. Amanda

    Indigent: It’s very common behavior. It happens all the time. But it is horrible behavior, rude, disrespectful. We’ve decided it’s okay to be asses, professionally, I guess.

    Reply
  113. Michel

    What’s galling about it is that an email address is provided for anyone with additional questions for the committee. It would be fine if they didn’t offer any means of contact. But when it’s offered, I think it’s legitimate to expect some kind of answer at some point, especially for problems with the application.

    Reply
  114. the outfit is everything…?

    I have an on campus interview coming up that’s 1.5 days long. First, hallelujah! Second, for the main day, when the job talk happens, obviously I’ll wear my interview uniform: a suit. I’m wondering what to wear for the half day… Again the suit, which will likely be kinda smelly after a long stressful day 1? A second suit, which I sort of have, although if they look closely, they might notice the pants and jacket don’t quite exactly match, and is arguably a summer suit which might be odd for February? Or is it ok to scale down to dress pants and blazer/cardigan for day 2? Once at an EU interview (where both candidates visited the same day), the other guy changed into a professorly cardigan for dinner, and it seemed like a power move (although I got the job).

    Reply
  115. Dean

    I have a campus visit coming up and I am mystified by the meeting with Dean. What kind of questions will the Dean ask the candidates? Any advice or suggestions will be much appreciated!

    Reply
  116. anon

    I have now met with several Deans. The questions asked vary a lot. Most recently, they invited me to ask them questions. I used to the time to find out about what kind of research support the institution has for faculty. At my first on campus interview, however, the Dean meeting was a more formal interview where they had prepared questions for me. Questions included: “You make claim x in your writing sample, how does this connect to issue y in our contemporary world?” “The philosophy job market is tough. How would you mentor graduate students?” “List a teaching situation you found to be a challenge and tell me how you responded to it.” So, basically, the meeting can range from an informational chat where you ask most of the questions to an interview with a pre-set list of questions. I would prepare some questions for them but also be prepared to answer questions about teaching and service and maybe some general questions about what you work on.

    Reply
  117. Maybe someday I’ll be a behaviorist too

    My meetings with deans have varied widely. None asked in detail about my work, but they did tell me in detail about their work. One was a behaviorist psychologist and told me all about his experiments with rats and pigeons (really).
    Another one gave me the straight details of what the offer would be, should I receive it: the salary was $X (she followed that up by saying, “There’s some room for negotiation), the responsibilities were such and such. She then told me how the college was struggling to recruit students but she didn’t anticipate any major cuts down the road. Certainly confidence-building for me.
    So my experiences with deans have been all over the place and I don’t know how I would have prepared for this interviews specifically, other than just with the other prep I did for other meetings.

    Reply
  118. OnTheMarket

    @the outfit…
    I would suggest wearing what feels most like you and also looks “professional” (for whatever that is worth) and fits in with the season. They key is to look polished but mostly to be comfortable enough for no one to be distracted by your attire (you or them). I would also consider what if anything you know or can find out about the place (have you ever met any of the faculty from there and what did they dress like? It might give you a cue about expectations, but might also not).
    Here is what I did for two day interviews (and got job offers!): a basic suit one day and a polished simple outfit with a blazer over it the other day, with the same shoes and overcoat each day because packing too much stuff for two days is not worth it. I have seen people have great job talks where they wore something professional that was not a formal suit (and maybe their talks went over better? But I think this depends on the culture of the place…).
    I personally wish attire didn’t matter so much for all sorts of (bias) reasons (class, gender, gender expression, etc.) but I realize it does, so I tried to go with giving the search committee little info about myself through my wardrobe other than that I own at least two professional but unremarkable outfits. I think other folks have great success wearing something loud that looks interesting and unique, but this is not my comfort zone.
    Also: consider finding out if you will be going in and out of different buildings a lot and if you need to wear a lot of warm layers, as this can be a factor in how you dress for both comfort and ease.
    Good luck!

    Reply
  119. grants

    I have an upcoming interview with a European university that has mentioned that they will also be asking me about how I will secure grants. Given that I am right out of graduate school and from a North American university I have no experience with grants. So I am not sure what is the best way to answer such questions. Should I be looking up potential grants that I could be applying for later? Should I pitch a project that would have grant potential? Can I mention the one time that I have had gotten a graduate-level scholarship as relevant experience? Thank you so much in advance!

    Reply
  120. Amanda

    I really don’t think outfit is very important at most places, as long as you don’t wear your pajamas, something with explicit language/messages, or something that would get you sent home from public high school. I mean, sure, there are some exceptions. Like at a conservative Catholic school or maybe even a very prestigious liberal arts school. I’m not sure about the second one. But in general, I think people spend way too much time worrying about this. I was offered two jobs in jeans, so, idk, it doesn’t seem a deal breaker.

    Reply
  121. wingate

    Wingate University doesn’t appear to have tenured professors, but their job ads refer to “security track” Assistant Professor positions. Does anyone know how these secure track positions compare to tenure track?

    Reply
  122. anon

    If one’s research is in social and political and working/published papers explicitly mention “Trump,” is this a red flag to search committees at religiously affiliated liberal arts colleges?

    Reply
  123. dr. blasphemy

    anon: I wouldn’t worry too much.
    To be completely honest, I felt like I had more academic freedom when I worked at a religiously affiliated liberal arts college than when I worked for a public institution in a state with a legislature openly hostile to public higher education.
    It depends on the religious affiliation, of course. Some topics might be frowned upon. That said, many religious schools are really open to the free exchange of ideas, including some with which they disagree. IME, it’s really more about the mission, and if you can show that you’re behind the mission (even if you’re not actually religious), it’s all good.

    Reply
  124. european

    @grants: Here’s advice from a Northern European perspective, not sure how pertinent this would be e.g. for an UK job.
    I would mention a couple of items within your research program that would be suitable for applying for grants. Educate yourself about some of the major grants for junior academics, such as the ERC and Marie Curie grants, and specify that you want to apply for this or that grant. It doesn’t hurt to indicate an active interest in applying for grants as a group; you might have ideas on what sort of consortium you would want to assemble. E.g., “my dissertation was on group agents, so I’d be interested in studying group agents in the context of political organizations. I know a couple of philosophically minded sociologists in Milan who would probably be interested in forming a multidisciplinary consortium.”
    Grant writing is a big part of European philosophy jobs (depending on country, department, etc.), and you should be prepared to write or participate in writing multiple grants each year. Given your stage and that you’re not an European PhD i.e. not already experienced in grant writing, they know you don’t have experience yet, but they want to hear that you know what you’re getting into — that you know which grants you should be applying for and that you have tentative ideas about what sorts of projects to pursue with grants. Finally, you can mention your North American background as an asset and maybe talk about applying for American grants (e.g., Templeton) down the line, as well.

    Reply
  125. 1989

    I just interviewed for a TT job at U of X in field Z. One of the interviewers is a VAP at U of X in field Z. Is it common for non-TT faculty to serve on TT search committees?
    I’m worried this may be a search where they’ve already settled on an internal candidate, ie the VAP interviewer. But obviously if that were the case this would be incredibly blatant; a search that hires a member of the search committee.
    Any thoughts on this situation much appreciated!

    Reply
  126. Anxiety and despair

    What are the etiquette norms about reaching out to schools for an update after a visit?

    Reply
  127. Rob

    Anxiety and Despair, I’ve always been told not to contact schools unless you have a good reason, such as an offer from somewhere else. If they have not updated you, then they have not yet decided to hire you. Your contacting them is not going to have a positive effect, unless you have a new bargaining chip.

    Reply
  128. Confused

    I just had a flyout at a PhD granting place and never met several of the tenured faculty members who are supposed to vote on who gets the job. They didn’t come to the teaching demo, or job talk, or anything else. Is this normal? Or does this mean I was probably never going to get the job since several voting members of the faculty didn’t even bother to show up for me? (It was never explained to me why they never showed up.)

    Reply
  129. Anon

    Confused, I know someone that happened to. They got the job.

    Reply
  130. Also Curious

    1989,
    I had an interview this year with a VAP on the interviewing committee, though the VAP did not have an AOS in the area specified in the job ad. I also had a similar interview situation last year.
    In general, I’m inclined to think it’s not a good idea for a VAP to serve on the committee, especially if there are other tenure-stream faculty members who could so serve. I’d be curious to hear a justification for the practice from a tenure-stream faculty member.

    Reply
  131. anon

    An observation that I’m not sure is even worth sharing, but today is shot, productivity-wise, and I am creeping toward despair:
    It has become clear that I will be striking out this year on the market. Two skype interviews out of nearly 75 applications, and no campus visits. I thought the interviews went well; apparently not well enough. I have one more year at my current VAP, so if I don’t get anything next year, I’ll be forced to leave philosophy.
    I used to think misery loved company, and that I would benefit from hearing that others are in similarly precarious positions as me. But it’s not working anymore. It’s not helpful when, frankly, I’m crying in my office thinking about how my entire life’s work, and the core project around which I’ve based my identity (for better or worse), is falling down around me. The replies of “join the club/it could be worse/it’ll be fine” are products of good intentions, no doubt; but they just manage to alienate me further somehow. It isn’t much comfort to know that this outcome is commonplace, that ostensibly good people never find their place. That just makes me adjust my expectations to an even bleaker assessment of my own chances.

    Reply
  132. Not a Vocation

    anon: I’m in the same situation. I had something like 8 Skype interviews this year (around 40 applications), and so far no campus visit (I have still one I’m waiting to hear from). I made a few mistakes in some of the interviews, but I think in general I was pretty good. I had detailed feedbacks on some of the interviews, and what I was told is that campus invitations were extended to candidates with specific combinations of different factors – alas, I had not that particular combination of factors.
    Of course, I’m kind of sad about it (especially because I sacrificed research time to tailor applications), but I think that it all depends on the attitude we had about our profession. Sometimes, our disappointment comes from the fact that, deep down, we think we are doing something special that few people can do, and so rejections are rejections of us as persons. We think of philosophy as a vocation, and certainly we decided to go to graduate school with the attitude “I’m not doing a job as any other job/I’m doing something special”. However, being an academic philosopher is like working in a post office (interestingly, there is a lot of research on how the profession of the scientist went from being a vocation to being a regular job, but I didn’t find anything interesting on the history of the figure of the philosopher). Sometimes it’s a little bit more dynamic than working in a post office, and sometimes you get to travel, but it is a job as any other job (or at least that’s the way I see it). I don’t see anymore rejections as rejections of me as a person; I just see them as rejections of either my quite specific professional profile (a sort of avatar tailored for the specific context of academia), or as rejections of my interviewing performances (as it happens when I have the feeling tat I have performed poorly – and this year I was pretty bad in a couple of occasions). There are many jobs out there (maybe not TT, but several postdoc or non-TT teaching positions), you just had to tailor your professional profile to cover most of them.

    Reply
  133. On the way out?

    To those others commenting about the lack of jobs and difficulty of considering other outcomes, I’ll add another voice. I’m in a very good tenure track job, have a good publication record, am well-respected in my sub-discipline, but I have a two-body problem and I’m closing in on tenure. Despite flyouts just about every year, continuing to do “the right things” professionally, and the encouragement of senior folks to stick it out, I am considering leaving academia to be with my partner and live a whole life, not just a partial one. I enjoy my research, but not enough to trade my personal life for it over the next several decades.
    I’m also in a situation where, despite not being visibly so, I’m a member of a significantly underrepresented group in philosophy, which has recently been the subject of a lot of ugly controversy in the field. Remaining private about my personal life is important to me, but I wonder whether more so-called “diversity” hires would be open to me if I decided to make this information public. But then I’d be pigeonholed for my career AND subject to abuse, and I’m unwilling to do that–it’s hard enough to watch it happen to others. (And it’s impossible to know whether this information would make a difference in the decision-making, anyway.)
    Ultimately, I’ve been giving a lot of thought to what I want to do, and what I can do to make money, and how those are linked. Whether I can do the kind of research I am doing now outside of the academy is an open question, but I am optimistic that people who can research, write, and think are important in a lot of fields, and that we can find valuable/engaging work outside of higher ed.
    So…chins up, everyone, maybe my position will be open for someone else soon?

    Reply
  134. a philosopher

    I say this with a lot of respect and sympathy for “anon” (@ 02/12/2020 at 12:19 PM), but the contrast between their post and “On the way out?” (@ 02/12/2020 at 03:51 PM) is striking. OTWO has what anon wants, but is perhaps ready to give it up for family. I’m not picking on anon, because they could be almost any of the, what, 600 or so philosophers in the North American job market this year who won’t get a job? Most of us (and I’m one of them) are pretty anxious, depressed, and thoroughly defeated by the process.
    I guess my first thought is that OTWO’s post should give valuable context: the grass really isn’t always greener on the other side, and there’s more to life than philosophy. I’m sure anon won’t really appreciate me saying it, but you’ve got to have more to your identity than just philosophy. Aristotle and Plato were wrong that the good life is one of doing philosophy. A life worth living is one with a some minimal material security, a few good friends and something of a family, and perhaps a few achievements to hang one’s hat on and some leisure time for philosophizing or art or whatever.
    That this is right is evinced, I think, by predicaments like OTWO’s. Philosophy is not so important as to swamp out considerations of family and friends, and those who find themselves in OTWO’s position seem to either mostly be miserable for it, or leave philosophy to be happy.
    My final thought is that the contrast between anon and OTWO vividly shows just how many ways philosophy (the discipline) has to make us all miserable. Without a good bit of circumstantial luck and personal maturity and virtue, we often find ourselves either confronting material insecurity and what’s effectively professional failure and a lack of recognition, or we find ourselves in ultra high-pressure, high-stakes gigs which are professionally satisfying, but very costly in terms of time, friends, family, and life outside the discipline.

    Reply
  135. a friend

    Anon,
    I was in your place several years ago. I wish I had seen someone and/or started taking something for depression. Yes, it’s your circumstances, but if it last more than a week or two and hinders your ability to function in your work or relationships, then seek help.

    Reply
  136. Reluctant

    I agree with almost everything said above on anon’s post. Anon, I share your anguish but, just like you, reading about yours does not make me feel any better. Indeed, I can strongly say that I feel the pain of all published, successful philosophers without jobs.
    But, I also get furious when philosophers with jobs engage in this shameful brush-off when they just say “oh the market is terrible” and then move on to teaching the same courses for the tenth time without any changes or improvements.
    I reject with prejudice naming “philosophy the discipline” as the culprit of this criminal state in which hundreds of hard-working, deserving philosophers are left jobless. What is responsible for this abomination is not the discipline but the legions of 60+ year old “philosophers” who are complicit in the crime by greedily clinging to their positions which they may no longer deserve.

    Reply
  137. a philosopher

    Reluctant,
    Yeah, people need to retire, but also people need to let go of their graduate programs or retool them to train people who can get jobs outside academia.
    To a first approximation, the basic problem is that there are far more philosophers looking for jobs than jobs, right? I would estimate 800-1000 people on the market this year. How many positions were there? 150? I know this number is probably now outdated, but at one point I thought I read somewhere that there were around 350 new philosophy PhDs granted in the US each year. Well, if every year we have fewer than 200 jobs go up, there’s obviously a structural problem.
    So, either we need to graduate a lot less philosophy PhDs, or we need to retool programs to turn out people who can seamlessly transition to nonacademic work, or both.
    Another alternative is for tenured faculty to fight against the continued move to contingent work, and for more full-time, permanent positions.
    I know it’s crazy, but another way people in the discipline could ease the stress on everyone is not feeding into the over professionalization. For example, if hiring and tenure committees stopped awarding people for publication counts and awarded them for publication quality, we’d lessen the stressful publish-or-perish culture.
    In any case, the people making up the discipline need to do more.
    I am very thankful for this place, and people like Marcus, who are aware of these issues and doing their part.

    Reply
  138. Reluctant

    Pfo’s are a thing of the past. I applied to 29 positions this year and I got only 9 pfo’s. But, because I got no skype invitations, I also know I did not make the short list for any of the 29 positions but nonetheless I got only 9 pfo’s. So, I guess with so many applications departments will not bother sending the pfo’s anymore. They must be thinking “losers don’t deserve even a rejection by our hand…”

    Reply
  139. Person

    I want to raise one insidious effect which being on the job market had on me personally, and ask whether other people have experienced this too: that is, the inability to enjoy other people’s, even close friends’, successes. While I was a grad student, I made friends widely, across many grad programs (and of course my own), and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. But now, being a few years out and on the job market again, whenever I open Facebook or any other social media and see people posting about their successes — even if it is as mundane as presenting at a conference, or being mentioned by Very Important Philosopher on Twitter — I feel jealous and anxious. I simply cannot enjoy my friends’ successes any more. I always think about how I will have to compete with these very people on the job market, and there is a constant mental battle going on of comparing my CV to theirs. (This is anything but a theoretical issue–I have run into friends when I have gone for job interviews.) So my first question is whether other people have made the same experience.
    I’ve muted/unsubscribed etc. most of my philosophical friends on social media, but that doesn’t feel like a solution either. These are nice people which I genuinely would like to be friends with. If I ever make into academia, these will be my future peers, and I will want to be friends with them, and not just for instrumental reasons. But I just cannot bear looking at their profiles. Assuming that people have similar experiences, does anyone have any good strategies for dealing with this, or at least some personal insight?

    Reply
  140. a philosopher

    Person, I’ve experienced these feelings of jealousy, for sure. What helps me is having things in my life outside philosophy. Since my identity isn’t exhausted by my philosophical work and success, I’m not all-consumed by comparing myself to my (many) more successful philosophical friends. Since I’ve always drifted in-and-out of philosophy from the beginning, I’ve always had something going on outside philosophy. But I was definitely my most jealous the last two years of my PhD, when philosophy was really consuming my life, I was on the job market for the first time, and it was hard to see anything of value in life outside philosophy. Once I finished the degree, separated myself a bit from philosophy, and began cultivating again my life outside philosophy, that sort of jealousy improved a lot.
    Another thing that perhaps helps is keeping in mind the role of luck in these “achievements”. For example, being mentioned by Very Important Philosopher on Twitter usually doesn’t happen because VIP finds your work out of the blue and independently judges it to be very good. There are references, referrals, and networking involved in these sorts of things: your mutal friends or friends of friends tell the VIP about your work, etc. Likewise, I see graduate students get invitations to submit pieces to prestigious OUP collections, but I know that circumstance (e.g., having a friend of the editor as an advisor) plays a role here. So, anyway, it helps me to think about the role of luck and circumstance in these things: I feel much less bad about my own relative lack of accomplishments when I realize it largely comes down to my worse social positioning within the field.
    I guess the thought is: look for context. Don’t let your professional academic life exhaust your identity. Cultivate interests and and friends outside philosophy. Keep in mind the broader sociological forces driving professional philosophical success and the role of luck. Keep your philosophical life properly situated within these realities.

    Reply
  141. Greg Stoutenburg

    I think it can be very helpful, personally/spiritually/emotionally, to directly confront the situation one is in.
    I wrote a post for this blog several months ago about my own job market failure: lots of publications, good citation count, lots of teaching experience, etc, and just four interviews in four years. (This year I applied for just two jobs–one of them went to an abd with no publications and no teaching experience. It’s not me, it’s ‘the system’.)
    Last spring, after a fly-out for my dream job that resulted in someone else getting that very same awesome job, it was time to face the music:
    I will never have a TT job, and there is nothing that I can do about it.
    It was difficult to acknowledge the fact, but I got a ton of life back by being able to say aloud, with meaning and without any lingering doubt or remaining hope that if I just try this one more thing maybe then…no, I will not have a TT job in philosophy.
    I will never have a TT job in philosophy. I can stay in the field in some manner or other, but I will not be a career professor. In five years, I will not be Assistant Professor. In fifteen years, I will not be Associate Professor. In twenty-five years, I will not be Full Professor. I will never be TT Professor-anything. There will be no sabbatical. There will be no invited lectures. Those things will not be a part of my life.
    That’s not despair, it’s power. I have felt much better about my life in general since coming to terms with this. That’s not necessarily advice for anyone, and if anyone sincerely wants to keep trying, then of course, do so! But for anyone, like Anon above, who is totally burned out and feels like life is over: it is not over. Maybe the TT career won’t happen for you. It may be much better for your life to either find some of the spark that got you in to philosophy to begin with, and let that energy power the job search. Or it may be better to change direction and try something else.
    Make friends. Work out. Get a hobby. Go outside. Don’t drink too much. Life has a ton to offer.

    Reply
  142. Anonymous Postdoc

    Hello all,
    How damaging is going into a fixed term teaching job, if you’ve already had several successful years in fixed term research jobs?
    I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth staying in research jobs in living situations I hate, to maximize my chances of someday having living situations I love, vs. fixed term teaching jobs in living situations that would be tolerable at worst. That’s a question of my preferences, but part of it depends on how much a fixed term teaching job would lower my chances of a permanent job in my home country.

    Reply
  143. Marcus Arvan

    Anonymous Postdoc: Here’s my sense of things. Accepting a teaching job is likely to affect the kinds of jobs you will be competitive for in the future. Before I accepted a fixed-term teaching job, I was competitive for research jobs. After I accepted a teaching job, my interviews for research jobs dried up but I got more and more interviews from teaching jobs.
    I’ve written on this before–that is, on how “trajectory” matters. If you want a permanent research job, stay in a research job. If you are okay with permanent teaching jobs (and there are permanent teaching jobs in your market), then feel free to accept the teaching job. Just know that if you do, your opportunities for a permanent research job may dry up.

    Reply
  144. Anonymous Postdoc

    Hi Marcus,
    Thank you! That’s a very helpful way of framing the facts.

    Reply
  145. serachless

    I believe that it is fairly common for jobs offers to be made for tenured professors without a national formal search. This is also obviously true in the case of spousal hires. Do such search-less job offers ever happen at the assistant professor level under other circumstances? Perhaps to VAPs or postdocs already working in the department? If yes, under what conditions? If not, why not?

    Reply
  146. Amanda

    searchless I’ve seen them happen but I think it is rare. From what I’ve seen, it happens when the department has a very special reason to want to hire the postdoc or VAP. In some states it is illegal to do this without a search. So there might be a lot of red tape to jump through to make it legal. I think the legal issues are why this situation is rare. But that is just my sense – I do not claim actual expertise in this area.

    Reply
  147. Interfolio Q

    Did folks have to pay to apply to jobs using Interfolio? It was free for me, but I had an account sponsored by my home institution. Now I’m advising next year’s marketeers, and wondering if people at other institutions faced a financial barrier to applying for Interfolio jobs.

    Reply
  148. Marcus Schultz-Bergin

    Interfolio Q:
    In my experience, any place that required me to use Interfolio had their whole set-up through Interfolio, so the payment happened on their end. No cost on my part.
    However, I think sometimes a committee will ask for letters to be sent via Interfolio, but the rest of the application process is done else how. I believe, in that case, someone would have to pay for Interfolio (or have the cost subsidized).

    Reply
  149. On the market

    Interfolio Q: Marcus is right that it’s free to use interfolio to send letters if the school uses Interfolio for their job search. Not many of them do use Interfolio, however.
    I believe it’s increasingly common for graduate students to be expected to use a dossier service for rec letters. It’s also probably in the student’s best interest to ensure letters get sent on time given how many applications a student can send out in a season (many friends of mine have sent upwards of 80 applications in one season, e.g.).
    I don’t know how common it is for universities to sponsor Interfolio access, but my private r1 did not, and it is definitely a financial burden.

    Reply
  150. anon

    I think the most frustrating part of the freakin academic job market is actually getting interviews and then getting vague form responses about why you didn’t make the next round.
    Like, maybe its because at the end of the day, the reasons search committees use to justify things are just irrational and maybe I wouldn’t want to know. But to invest time, energy, and resources and then to get your hopes up with an actual interview only be told “We moved with another candidate who better suited our needs.”
    Give me a break. Be honest with us. Tell us something to help us move forward. What a joke.

    Reply
  151. NTT Defender

    anon @ 10:50 a.m.
    Whenever I have received a flyout and didn’t get the job, I asked the search chair for more detailed feedback. In every case, they were honest with me. (Well, except for the one school that ghosted me after a flyout. Screw them.) Try that?
    Re: Interfolio
    My well-funded R1 university sponsored our Interfolio accounts for several years. I think they’re transitioning to another system. In any case, I think it’s worth the personal expense, if only for peace of mind at having your letters sent promptly and not constantly bothering your letter writers or secretarial staff.

    Reply
  152. anon

    @ NTT Defender
    This was after a first round interview, but I still find it just as frustrating.

    Reply
  153. Interfolio question

    I was on the market this year and bought an interfolio account. But only 7-8 jobs out of the 50 I applied to were hosted on interfolio, so I had to bother my department’s placement assistant for the rest to either email the letter to the search chair directly or to receive the letter requests from various online application websites. I am now wondering whether there was a way to send all letters via interfolio and not constantly ask our placement assistant for the letters. Does interfolio provide a service that can be used even for job applications that aren’t hosted on interfolio? Thanks!

    Reply
  154. Interfolio answer

    “Does interfolio provide a service that can be used even for job applications that aren’t hosted on interfolio?”
    Yes, this is actually one of the main purposes of Interfolio. Click on “deliveries” on the side and select “new delivery.” You can enter the email address and insert the link to the job ad. They will also send by post.
    And you can also have letters of recommendation automatically sent by using the Interfolio-specific email address shown on each letter instead of filling in the faculty email in the online form you fill out at the institution. That email is under “Document Email” and will look like
    send.Lewis.1A1234567B@interfolio.com (I just made this one up, I hope it doesn’t work…) As long as the letter is generic, this will work, though some letter-writers still prefer to personalize the address and opening, so you might have to ask those letter-writers directly.
    These services are all included in the basic subscription for up to 50 electronic and mail deliveries.

    Reply
  155. Answering Question

    Interfolio question: Yes, there is a service called Interfolio Dossier which uploads letters to application systems or emails letters for you.

    Reply
  156. Different timelines

    It’s my first time on the market and I am a little puzzled by the fact that different positions have such different timeline. At this point in the season many universities have already made their offers while there are others who aren’t close to making their decisions yet. Given that you are often given only a few weeks to contemplate and offer, I am wondering how common it is for job candidates to accept an offer and later back out after receiving a more desirable offer. And if this is common practice, how do search committees deal with it? Do they keep their second and third candidates in the race even after their top candidates have accepted their offer?

    Reply
  157. Simon

    I have known of people who accept an offer and then turn around and back out after receiving a better one. It depends in part on the circumstances. If you back out of a visiting or adjunct position in order to take a TT position, few would blame you. However, if you back out of one TT position for another one, this could have negative repercussions.
    I know of two cases like this. In one, a person reneged on a signed contract to go to a better school. They were not happy there, and tried to move on. I know people at two of the schools they applied to, and this person was not interviewed, primarily because of their prior actions.
    In another case, an offer was withdrawn when they found out that the candidate had accepted another offer, even though this candidate wanted the second job.
    You are not going to get much more than anecdotal information on cases like this, though, because it doesn’t happen all that often, and different universities (and different committees) have different reactions…

    Reply
  158. Seen it

    Different timelines: In my experience, this is a fairly common practice. Universities often engage in really bad labor practices. It is expected that people will look out for their own interests. Of course, it isn’t appreciated. But in general, if you turn down an offer, you aren’t likely to be looked at in a positive light by that institution in the future, whether you reject it before accepting it or after.

    Reply
  159. Amanda

    It is rare and it usually has bad consequences. Maybe in exceptional circumstances with really different offers it might make sense, but people will absolutely hold it against you. The schools don’t keep their backup candidates around. If that happens it is typically a failed search or a lost line.

    Reply
  160. Toss a Job to your Philosopher

    47 applications submitted in this round, 4 phone/skype interviews, 1 on campus, and no job. I’m kind of lucky that I’ll be continuing on my contract where I’m at, but this fucking stings hard.
    Those of you who’ve been on the market longer, how do you deal with the crushing disappointment? How do you deal with being ghosted by jobs? I know I’m going to be back in the saddle soon enough, but right now this whole process seems like so much shit.

    Reply
  161. Wishin’ and Hopin’

    I was wondering about the ethics of accepting a TT job but then starting to apply for TT jobs again in the fall.
    This is a job where I suspect I will be unhappy for a few different reasons–no one to talk to about research, isolated geography, and weather.
    My dissertation adviser says it is unethical to take a TT job and then start applying. And I am inclined to feel the same way.
    But philosophy friends say that in today’s market, there is no problem in taking a job one would want to keep applying from.
    And that applying from a TT job for another job would give me a leg up. Versus staying in my current VAP job and applying in the fall.
    I don’t have an offer. I just finished a campus interview. No offer may be forthcoming. But I am just trying to sort my thoughts out about it.
    What do people think?
    Thanks very much!

    Reply
  162. Anonymous Postdoc

    Wishin’ and Hopin’,
    I don’t know any ethical principle that binds a employee to an employer.

    Reply
  163. woop, woop

    @Toss a Job to your Philosophy:
    This season: 61 applications (so far), one phone interview, no job. My non-TT contract runs out in May. Fifth year on the market. Leiterific PhD, publications in top generalist journals, great to decent NTT jobs after grad school, good letters from people with brand recognition, teaching awards, great evals, good conference presentations, etc., etc.
    The thing that has kept me from completely losing it is that I don’t take it personally. I can’t. It would be like taking losing the lottery personally.
    @Wishin’ and Hopin’:
    Definitely apply. There is absolutely nothing morally wrong with doing that.

    Reply
  164. anon

    @Toss a Job to your Philosopher:
    This is my third year. I have many more publications than last year but had fewer interviews this time around. My contract runs out mid-summer, although I expect it to be renewed for one more year.
    As for why I don’t feel terrible, but instead feel relatively good:
    (1) I’ve been worse off, spending previous summers even more on the edge and interviewing in August for jobs that would have wanted me to move for September.
    (Lots of people have the feeling that it’s “over” at this point, but there’s plenty of applicants in that sort of situation every year. Which is a good and bad thing – the postings will keep coming, as will the stress of applying and waiting. And this isn’t just NTT stuff, last year there were some spring/summer TT searches, too.)
    (2) In my first year on the market I got very stressed, and focused too much on getting a job and then getting everything in my life sorted afterwards. But it makes sense to pursue happiness first and not in a way that’s contingent on the TT search.

    Reply
  165. Former Chair, Regional State U

    W&H: I disagree with your dissertation advisor. Go ahead and take the position, and continue to apply for others.
    People come and go in our business. There’s nothing wrong with that. There’s also nothing wrong with testing the waters. Just do the job well while you have it, and give some consideration to the fact that you may ultimately retire from the place. This happened to one of my undergrad profs.
    It’s also likely going to be the case for me. Fwiw, my advisor called my current position a good starter gig back when I got it. But I’ve actually come to like the place quite a bit, so I’m still here.
    All this said, you may want to think twice about continuing to list your dissertation advisor as a reference if you do take the job and stay on the market.

    Reply
  166. Intentionally vague for anonymity

    Should anyone fear a job offer being pulled due to the COVID-19 meltdown?

    Reply
  167. Marcus Arvan

    Intentionally vague: Hard to know for sure, but if it were me, I’d want to get the contract and sign it as soon as I reasonably could.

    Reply
  168. It’s hard to be a VAP right now.

    I’ll admit that the frustration and fear is tough these days. I’m teaching a 4/4 at a university that won’t renew my contract due to budget cuts. Yet, I still have to move all of my courses online and deal with the mess that COVID-19 left everybody in. Meanwhile, I’m looking at unemployment in two months when the economy is going to be a dumpster fire-both for academia and elsewhere.
    My student appreciate the effort that I’m putting in, but part of me doesn’t even want to do it anymore. I resent the university asking me to bend over backwards even they aren’t even making accommodations for every VAP whose caught in this ridiculous situation. It’s not my department’s fault (they would keep me on if they could). But it’s really tiring. Even more so, now that I’ve gotten emails about some schools canceling their searches.

    Reply
  169. a philosopher

    “My student appreciate the effort that I’m putting in, but part of me doesn’t even want to do it anymore.”
    It’s a freeing thought to realize you can just walk away. There are always ways to reorganize your life to accommodate whatever your situation. We often take for granted that “must” do something, without recognizing that the relevant constraints come from our expectation that nothing else in life be perturbed or changed.
    I’m not suggesting you actually quit on the spot … but, from an ethical point of view, I think there are worse things you could do. Universities won’t stop exploiting people so long as there are people willing to be exploited “for the children” (or whatever).
    But anyway, my real point is that it may be time to start radically rethinking your options, and especially questioning what implicit or hidden expectations of yours are constraining your decision making and blinding you to alternative paths forward.
    For most of us in the shit show of the philosophy job market there eventually comes a time when we need to radically rethink our lives, and that can be very freeing.

    Reply
  170. on the move

    W&H: IMO, the ethics of applying for a new TT job in your first year of having one depends on what that new employer is doing for you.
    If it’s a great job that is investing a lot in you – a nice research budget, course releases, extra travel money, and so on – I’d feel a bit bad about taking off immediately. Stick around a couple of years and publish some stuff with their name on it.
    If it’s not a great job with a supportive employer, no harm done. That 4/4 or similar job with below-median pay, crap benefits, limited travel funds, and oodles of service work – no harm leaving that job.
    In positions such as the latter (which I’ve had!) the challenge is to explain to a SC why you see their position as a vertical move over your current TT without being negative. In the not-great jobs, your colleagues may actually support your decision to find greener pastures.

    Reply
  171. It’s hard to be a VAP right now

    I appreciate the thought. But it’s a hell of a lot easier to ‘rethink’ options when there hasn’t been a sudden halt in almost all working fields. I’m not freeing. It’s terrifying.

    Reply
  172. Speaking to It’s hard

    Hi Its hard to be …
    I think you should give your current job the best shot you can. Here is why. First, you probably need the two months pay – I know I did when I was in your situation. Second, you do not know what the future holds. Some opportunity may arise between now and then, and the fact that you did your current job, that is, completed your contractual obligations, makes it more likely that you will get something down the road. Third, there is even the possibility that jobs will open up because of the virus. (this is not gallows humor – it is the reality of the situation).
    I wish you luck, and I know it is hard. I was still on the market when 9/11 happened. I can tell you, I did not think that universities were going to hire that year, but that is exactly when I got my job (how improbable). Fourth, by teaching in these challenging conditions you WILL acquire new skills, and these will make you more employable in other sectors.

    Reply
  173. Gutted

    I was a finalist candidate in a TT search that was wrapping up deliberations and they’ve just pulled the position given the coronavirus situation.

    Reply
  174. Marcus Arvan

    Gutted: I am so very sorry to hear that. 🙁 🙁 I have a tenured job and I am worried that COVID-19 might lead many universities like mine to declare financial exigency and let a bunch of faculty go, including tenure-track and tenured faculty. I can only imagine what it is like to be a job-candidate right now.
    These are terrible times, and all of us can only guess what it will do to higher education, our jobs, and the job-market. My heart goes out to you and all of the other job-candidates out there. I am so sorry.

    Reply
  175. Amanda

    Marcus: have you heard discussion about firing TT faculty from actual ppl in a position to do so? It seems that right now, since people are online, the universities have not lost any money. Unless maybe they have to refund students at dorms? The real worry would be if any of this carries into the fall, correct?
    Gutted – I have two students that were in the interview process for TT jobs and everything was put on hold. They haven’t pulled the positions yet, but it seems a real possibility. It’s awful.

    Reply
  176. Marcus Arvan

    Hey Amanda: I have not heard of ANY discussions of firing TT faculty. What I do know is that universities are losing a ton of money from refunds of various sorts. Depending on a university’s financial shape (including its endowment), that could be absolutely devastating. But yeah, I am more concerned about the fall right now.
    I don’t think there’s too much more to say on any of this. I just wanted to express solidarity. Suffice it to say, we’re all worried: about our health, health of our loved ones, the economy and labor markets, etc. Let’s all cross our fingers and hope everything takes a turn for the better.

    Reply
  177. Solidarity

    Man, I’m sorry, Gutted. I was worried about something like that happening to me, as well. (I posted last week in this thread.) Solidarity.

    Reply
  178. Michel

    Amanda: One potential added consideration is international enrollment, for schools that depend on it. We do, and we expect it to tank regardless of what happens in the next couple months.

    Reply
  179. Amanda

    Michel yes that’s an interesting point. So is the fear both that current international students will drop out, and that new ones won’t start? The latter seems more plausible to me than the former.
    It’s hard for me to gauge whether a university, apart from enrollments, would lose money. I’m sure their is a loss of money from all sorts of events. However, it also seems a ton of money is saved. The cost of operating the buildings, stadiums, dorms, not having to pay for any travel for faculty or visitors, etc. I think it will vary by university a lot. And yes, obviously rich universities, bigger state universities, etc. will be in a much safer position than smaller less wealthy colleges.

    Reply
  180. Anymous-Z

    Has anyone had their offer rescinded or heard of someone who has? (I have not, nor have I heard of anyone else who has)

    Reply
  181. Amanda

    I haven’t heard of that. I think once an offer is made, there is a lot of pressure to keep it. But lots of places that already had some or all candidates flyout (whether actually or virtually) have postponed their search. And in most cases, postponed will likely mean cancelled. I even know someone who was told that they were going to get the offer until the school told the search committee to suspend the search literally a day before the offer letter would have gone out.

    Reply
  182. anon

    “Latest from @Stanford during #COVID19 – Undergrads permitted to take Spring leave of absence/get full tuition refund “for any reason including you do not want to take remote classes.” Deadline to request LOA w full refund: April 5” (@tsmullaney)

    Reply
  183. anon

    Schools Announcing a Hiring Freeze
    http://theprofessorisin.com/2020/03/24/schools-announcing-a-hiring-freeze/

    Reply
  184. Thank you, admin, may I please have another?

    I recently accepted an infinitely renewable non-TT position. While mulling over whether to accept the position after securing a very slight increase in the modest salary on offer, the chair emailed me during an all-college chairs meeting upon being informed that the college might suspend all searches and freeze all hiring. This was not a pressure tactic. He was genuinely concerned. Well, folks, I took the job. My best to everyone in the humanities. The meat grinder that is the market, I hope, hope, hope, is not about to turn into a black hole.

    Reply
  185. Defending in 2020

    I just want to note that I am really, really not ready to even think about what effect COVID-19’s economic impact will have on the job market.
    This was my very first year on the market. Although I haven’t gotten any offers yet, I was at least kind of pleased that I did get a few interviews, some of which went quite well (I think?) despite my being very green and having no actual peer-reviewed publications yet (working on it, I promise). I’m already busier than I’ve ever been with running online courses for the first time in my short teaching career (as an underpaid adjunct) alongside trying to finish and defend a dissertation, and I’m worried about the health of my family and friends and everybody else in the world, and I live alone and haven’t left the house to do anything besides walk the dog in a few weeks already, and and and. Everything’s already so bleak; thinking about future job markets is just too much right now.

    Reply
  186. Amanda

    I am very happy that one of my student’s has been offered a job. And #COVID2020, they wanted me to inform as many people as possible that they were wearing no pants for the entire 2 day interview…

    Reply
  187. Yetagain

    It is amazing that western academia is still not acknowledging centuries of bias and stereotyping against non-europeans… just go on philjobs and check how many non-whites or non-europeans have gotten jobs…

    Reply
  188. just saying

    I was on a search committee this year. We wanted to hire someone from an underrepresented group (provided they were a good fit for the job, of course.) I work at an R1, and let’s just say we had A LOT of applications. That said, as far as we could tell, we had exactly 6 “non-white” applicants. Three seemed to be from southeast Asia, 1 was from the middle east, 1 was hispanic, and 1 was a native American. Of those 6 we offered the job to one of them, (who turned us down) and another one was in the final three.
    Just because there doesn’t appear to be a lot of hires on philjobs of the type you mention, it does not follow that there is some systematic bias or stereotyping. We must know the total number of non-white and non-European applicants. From what I have seen, it would not surprise me if the hires show that non-whites and non-europeans are getting. hired in proportion to their presence in the job market. But either way, it makes no sense to speculate on it without having at least some reasonable grasp on the number of white vs. non-white applicants. Most studies show that the underrepresentation gap with women and minorities starts with undergrad majors, and stays fairly stable from there. If so, then it is not search committees that are to blame for underrepresentation.
    Also I am not clear on what groups count as “western” or “non-European.”

    Reply
  189. Yetagain

    Denial will not help. Blaming others, e.g. admissions committees, or history or governments will not help either. I humbly invite all our western colleagues to examine their own experiences (by western I mean anyone born and raised to the north of the Mediterranean and west of Turkey). For instance, have you never had a great philosophical discussion with someone at a conference and then had this surprised, puzzled look when you find out that the person is from Egypt, Iran, or Turkey? That someone from one of those, or other non-western countries, is a professional philosopher comes as such a surprise, but there are many secular and well-educated people in those countries who do important philosophical work. Have you ever thought what effect that puzzled look might have on that person? That they do not belong in their own field, that they are an anomaly in the field they got a phd in, that they are so alien to be invited to lunch at a conference… Westerners may not even be aware of the effects of their behaviors or looks on their faces, but I am just saying, they do… Refusing to say someone’s name because it is not western, how is that acceptable? How is that not racist? Please do not be dismissive, just try to empathize and maybe some little progress can be made…

    Reply
  190. Mercado Uber

    I wonder whether anyone has a sense of how bad the job market will be this fall?
    I am at a large teaching-oriented state school. Some administrators have signaled that we may have the green light to run a TT search.

    Reply
  191. Amanda

    It will be the worst we’ve ever seen. I’d bet my house on that. I am glad you are doing well at your place, but most places I know are trying their hardest to not furlough faculty and/or close their department. Hiring is out of the question.

    Reply
  192. Amanda

    yetagain, you completely ignored the other person’s point. The point was that there was a very small number of non-western applicants, so you would expect a small number of non-western hires, even if their was no bias or discrimination. Are you saying that this is impossible? That the person was lying and that it is impossible that the number of non-western applicants is comparable to the number of non-western persons hired? If so, do you have any evidence?

    Reply
  193. Yetagain

    amanda, please re-read my latest post. I am asking everyone to think about the structures and practices that lead to small numbers of non-western applicants and of course other racial and ethnic inequalities in the field… If you are going to so vehemently deny there is any racial prejudice in professional philosophy, there is not much to gain from further discussion. Please re-read my latest post and try to empathize…

    Reply
  194. Covid and the market

    I agree with Amanda. Given also how badly Covid is getting in the US, it’s very likely that schools will not be in a position to make longterm plans such as hiring TTs

    Reply
  195. Nicola

    Marcus, I’m starting to think that Yetagain is trolling. This is not the first time we’ve had these discussions with them and they’re completely unresponsive to evidence and argument, instead continuing to gaslight and denigrate everyone on this blog.
    Yetagain, almost everyone here recognizes that there are structural inequities and biases that end up explaining biases in job applications, and subsequently, hiring decisions, but as noted by others many times, the critical factors at play take place early on. And no one is denying that they are often detrimental and unjust. Still you keep focusing on hiring when no evidence suggests there’s the sort of bias you suggest, some evidence suggests there is not, and some evidence even suggests the bias goes the other way (slightly boosting the representation of women and—at least some—minorities among hires relative to their representation among applicants).

    Reply
  196. Marcus Arvan

    Hi Nicola: thanks for raising these concerns – others have raised them too. Yetagain, you are welcome to participate on the Cocoon. However, you have made your point a number of times without providing any clear evidence of the specific forms of discrimination you allege. They are serious allegations, and if you can provide empirical evidence that non-Europeans are discriminated against on the academic job-market, then you are welcome to provide it. Indeed, I would very much welcome it, as I am deeply committed to understanding and combating unjust discrimination.
    However, due to the concerns that Nicola and others have raised, I agree with your last comment that continuing this particular conversation is not productive at this point given the blog’s mission.

    Reply
  197. Interdisciplinarian

    I wasn’t sure where to post this, but I hope someone sees it. I have a somewhat sensitive question related to the philosophy job market. I have a masters in religion and am published in that field. I was wondering if committees typically require all publications to be disclosed, or whether it’s my prerogative to include them or not in the job application. Which leads me to the more sensitive question: unlike other candidates who have an interdisciplinary background in science, math, etc., there may be departments where, though the candidate is strong in the area of philosophy, the department may be intentionally hostile or unwelcoming to candidates with religious backgrounds, particularly candidates who studied at conservative institutions within religious academia; the religious background offsets an otherwise strong or merely promising candidate. Though I have no examples in mind, I’m wondering how common or unheard of it is for departments to be, either openly or less transparently, inclined to reject a job candidate who discloses such a background on their CV. I would be sincerely grateful for honest answers. Thanks in advance!

    Reply
  198. asst prof

    Interdisciplinarian: I think taking publications off your CV is totally your discretion. That said, I’ve noticed a few people in the past few years getting R1 jobs with papers on philosophy of religion (particularly philosophy of Christianity). So I’m not sure it would hurt you.

    Reply
  199. Personal Jesus

    Interdisciplinarian,
    There is one big risk if you take things off your c.v., like publications. If a committee member happens to find things – through a google search – then you look really deceitful. No one wants you then – even if someone on the committee was backing you, they will drop you like a hot potato, on the risk that you are hiding more or are just a big fat liar. So I would be more forthright with where you are coming from. There are people who are anti-religious. That is the reality. But even if you were hired at a place with such people you would probably find it a very hostile place to work. I saw similar thing happen, but respect to a political piece.

    Reply
  200. waiting is driving me nuts

    How long does it typically take to hear back from a university after all the fly-outs (well, now zoom interviews) have been completed? At what point is it appropriate to email and ask the chair for clarification (two weeks, three weeks, never)? Or maybe the appropriate person to reach out to is the department secretary? Also, if anyone has suggestions for how to word that email, I would really appreciate it Thanks! .

    Reply
  201. anon

    It depends on when they’ve scheduled the interviews. If it’s for something that starts in September, the wait shouldn’t be too long.
    One thing that can stretch this out is that committees tend to want to leave the applicants hanging until the person they’ve made the offer to formally accepts. But the negotiation process can take some time.
    If you want to reach out, reach out to the chair of the search rather than staff. Something like: “Dear X, I’m writing to check in about the status of the search – I’m still very interested in the position.” (There’s more to say if, for instance, you have another offer.) I don’t think this could hurt, but it probably also won’t help, either.
    Good luck, and hopefully you aren’t waiting too much longer.

    Reply
  202. I am waiting as well

    Waiting
    You should communicate either with the Dept Chair or the head of the Search Committee – but the person who has been in contact with you so far. You can ask whenever you want. But realize that Searches drag on … we completed interviews in mid-June, and we have not even agreed on who to make the offer to.
    So this can go on and on …

    Reply

Leave a Reply to AnonymousCancel reply

Discover more from The Philosophers' Cocoon

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading