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Job-Market Reporting Thread (2025-26)
Job-Market Discussion Thread (2025-26)

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Job-market discussion thread (2020-21 season)

I know it's just the beginning of August and (sadly, but predictably) very few jobs advertisements have been posted over at PhilJobs and HigherEd Jobs. However, given that this job season is going to be unique–to say the least–and I expect there may be quite a few job-marketeers out there who already want to commiserate about how the market is already looking and how to prepare for it (including for Alt-Ac opportunities), I hereby open this job market discussion thread for the 2020-21 season.

Readers should feel free to discuss job-market matters in this post's comment section as they see fit, provided the discussion conforms to the blog's safe and supportive mission. As a rough rule of thumb, readers are expected to refrain from posting aggressive comments that can be reasonably interpreted as undermining a safe and supportive environment. As moderator, I will intervene if need be to let people know why I have elected not to approve their comments, so as to keep the discussion positive.

One other important thing. As in past years, the Cocoon will ultimately have two job-market threads this year:

  1. A job-market discussion thread (the present thread): to commisserate about the market, discussing particular job ads, the market in general, questions about application materials, interviewing, alt-ac opportunities, and so on.
  2. A job-market reporting thread: to post news about interviews, on-campus visits, offers, rejection notices, etc.

Because someone always asks, "Why two threads?", there are a couple of reasons for it. First, some people may want to discuss the market but not stress over daily news regarding which jobs they still do or don't have a chance for. Conversely, others may not want to discuss the market but just want news about the jobs they've applied for. Second, these threads can get very long already, so I think the best way for people to get the information they want in a well-ordered format is simply to have two threads.

A few final notes:

  • Please reserve job-market news (i.e. interviews, on-campus visits, hires, etc.) for the job-market reporting thread, which I will open sometime in September.
  • A 'permalink' to this thread will be on the upper right of blog's right sidebar. –>
  • Because of Typepad's functionality limitations (which only permits 100 comments before starting a new comment page), readers may elect to bookmark each new page of comments (or update their previous bookmark) as each new page emerges. I recognize that is can be frustrating to scroll through page after page to get to new comments, and I think this is probably the best solution.

All that being said, this discussion thread is now open. 

Posted in

141 responses to “Job-market discussion thread (2020-21 season)”

  1. postdoc

    I’m not sure if there are enough jobs this year for the concept ‘market’ to apply. Maybe better would be “Job lottery discussion thread.” I mean the supposed ‘market’ has always been more of a lottery than a market, but it’s definitely not a market this year. Let’s stop pretending that it is. LOL

    Reply
  2. Marcus Arvan

    Sadly, your sentiment here is surely right. This is one of the reasons I wanted to post this thread early this year. As I noted in the OP, given just how awful the market/lottery is going to be, it seems to me that job-marketeers may have a great deal to commiserate about this year–ranging from the standard things (job ads, dossiers, etc.) to things like (1) whether to defend dissertations, (2) how to stay in grad programs longer rather than head on the market, (3) how to find and prepare for alt-ac jobs, (4) solidarity/mutual support, and so on.
    Exactly how readers use this thread is up to all of you. I just figured there are probably quite a few people out there who could use a place to commiserate.

    Reply
  3. TT

    I may be wrong, but I haven’t seen a single U.S. TT job so far. By this point last year there were probably 15 or so.

    Reply
  4. anon

    I think it makes sense to expect those jobs that will be posted to be posted later than usual. Even if a department is angling to make a hire, approval to search is probably slowed down this year.

    Reply
  5. anon2

    I second the last comment here from anon. We are doing a search in my department this year, but the decision to approve was delayed two months later than usual and our ad, therefore, won’t go live until mid-September. (Though, I do suspect there will also be fewer searches this year.)

    Reply
  6. Tomm

    I have a tenure track job. I’m early in my career, but have made something of a name for myself. I’ll be applying for better tenure track jobs this year. Most such jobs that I’ve seen in the past still want letters. Who do I get the letters from?

    Reply
  7. mover

    Tomm
    Get letters from the biggest names you can, that is, the best placed people. They should know your work, and you should have corresponded with them in the past.

    Reply
  8. When the pie is this small, don’t go for seconds!

    The expected dearth of TT jobs this year has gotten me thinking about something I normally see every other year: grad students from fancy programs who defer TT positions to take up prestigious postdocs like NYU’s Bersoff, Rutgers’ Mellon postdoc, etc. At the best of times, this practice seems a bit greedy. But in a market like this year’s, where there will be so few TTs and recurring postdocs may be the best some could hope for, I think it would be unconscionable for anyone to take away postdocs from others when they already have one of the few TTs out there. When there are so few opportunities to go around, and most available opportunities are already concentrated among a small elite group, hoarding of this kind is just inexcusable. I would hope that this year, the people who have such opportunities decline them, and that departments offering TT positions refuse to allow candidates the option of deferring.

    Reply
  9. cherry pie

    I totally agree with “When the pie is this small, don’t go for seconds!”
    I know of very few postdocs that can only be held by people who do not have TT or long-term employment lined up for after, and I think departments that have open postdoc positions should start stipulating something similar.
    I also think that folks have every right to move TT jobs if they wish, and some have good reasons for wanting to do so. But given that folks who already have TT jobs have a demonstrated advantage on the (very small) market for TT jobs, I wonder if this practice does not also count as “going for seconds”. If folks who are interested in doing this cannot hold off for a few years while keeping a permanent position, hiring departments should be explicitly discouraged from making such hires, at least for the next few cycles.
    More than ever, new grads face the real threat of falling through the cracks due to tactics like these, and especially with so many postdocs being offered to folks who already have TT employment lined up… well, things seem really bleak for folks who are without TT employment and who are not in the selected few elite programs that actually place their students. I struggle to see how the limitedness of the market paired with these practices will not skew things even more in that direction.

    Reply
  10. anyonymous with a problem

    hi cherry pie: many of us applying for TT jobs from other TT jobs have two-body problems or other serious reasons for needing to move jobs or get an offer with which to negotiate. I would think it would be strange to say that we should stop applying for jobs in this harsh market; but maybe that’s wrong? I feel like being forced to live across the country from my partner is a good enough reason to go on the market.

    Reply
  11. Marcus Arvan

    Let’s remember this blog’s supportive mission please. Condescension and counter-condescension have no place here. I understand these are fraught issues and debate is fine—but please everyone do your part to keep the discussion within the blog’s supportive mission.

    Reply
  12. tom

    @ cherry pie
    “hiring departments should be explicitly discouraged from making such hires, at least for the next few cycles.”
    Hiring departments pursue, and ought to pursue, the (often explicitly stated) mission of hiring the best candidate they can recruit. Hence they must take into account candidates who already have TT positions elsewhere and whose demonstrated record of research, teaching and service is evidence that they are the best recruitable candidate on the market.

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  13. I Kant

    I have to agree with what others have suggested above … there cannot be a moral imperative that one should not apply for a job because one has one.
    If there were, there might also be one that says some of those who do not have jobs should change careers, so as not to burden others. No one believes such an imperative exists.
    I do think the habit of taking a post doc while also holding a TT job, waiting for you to finish your post doc, is morally suspect. We need Judith Thompson to help us see if this is a violinist like case … or a older brother with chocolates case, etc.

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  14. Marcus Arvan

    I would add to what I Kant said that I’ve known people in TT jobs who say that their work environment is hostile/toxic or otherwise unbearable (due to overwork, etc.), and that they want to move to another job because they are absolutely miserable where they are. It is hard for me to see why someone in a position like this should have to remain where they are–and my sense is that these kinds of cases are far more common that one might expect.

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  15. Michel

    Because people in this profession don’t get to choose where they live, and because salary compression is so pervasive, I don’t mind people trying to move laterally at all.
    But yes, I, too, think that the postdoc-and-TT-two-for-one thing is bad form.

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  16. anon

    Folks, just wanted to ask if the job-market reporting thread for 2020-2021 season has been opened yet. Some universities (e.g., Hongkong, Princeton, and Yonsei) had early deadlines in late August and early September. Wanted to know if anyone heard from them yet. It’s very tough out there. Really appreciate the support from this site.

    Reply
  17. Marcus Arvan

    Anon: I will open it now!

    Reply
  18. anon

    Marcus Arvan: Really appreciate it!

    Reply
  19. Post-Doc

    I’m curious how many other folks are seriously considering giving up on the academic job dream, now that this year’s market seems likely to be nearly (if not entirely) dry, and next year’s is sure to be twice as competitive as years past.
    I’m in this boat: currently 2 years post-PhD. In a postdoc for another year after this, but the prospects beyond this are grim. Dipped my toes in the non-academic job market, but struck out three times so far.
    Not sure what the next move is. Wondering if there’s at least some solidarity to be had.

    Reply
  20. 2020 vs. 2019 so far

    Just for fun (sort of?), I compared the number of TT jobs in the US and Canada posted on PhilJobs from Aug 1-Sept 17 in 2020 vs. 2019.
    The results:
    2019: 48
    2020: 11

    Reply
  21. grad out the door

    Do you think we’ve already seen the bulk of this year’s market options? any more to come trickling in or is this largely it?

    Reply
  22. Michel

    I think we’ll see more in November/December. But not a flood.
    Academics in other disciplines are reporting that their hiring authorization and stuff is significantly delayed this year (when it’s happening at all, that is), so I expect philosophy is in a similar camp.
    Plus, the yearly Princeton and NYU jobs aren’t out yet! So there’s (probably) that to look forward to.

    Reply
  23. Postuck

    Grad out the doot,
    Someone at the top of the thread suggested that postings may be later than usual this year, given budget uncertainties and general delays related to covid adjustments. I think that’s probably right. Even if it isn’t, October is usually a pretty busy month for job ads, so I would expect substantially more postings in the next few months, even if we continue to see a highly reduced volume of posting overall.

    Reply
  24. open position at York

    York Philosophy is hiring (open rank/open AOS). The opportunity is open to qualified individuals who self-identify as Black peoples of African Descent (for example Africans and African heritage people from the Caribbean, Americas, Europe).
    https://philjobs.org/job/show/15850
    This position comes out of a broader special hiring program at York that, following the provisions of the Ontario human rights code, is aimed at addressing the substantial underrepresentation of black scholars at York and in Canadian universities more broadly.

    Reply
  25. one of those guys

    How does the York job not violate the APA’s stated policy, according to which “Submitters of job ads agree to respect our nondiscrimination policy and relevant APA policies. This includes avoiding all forms of discrimination based on race…”, when the job ad states that “This selection will be limited to individuals who self-identify as Black”?
    I apologize if I appear to be ‘one of those guys’, but I imagine that this would clearly be taken as violating the APA’s policy if instead of ‘black’ it said ‘white’. I am not trolling, I am genuinely interested in a good explanation, as this appears to me to clearly be a case of discrimination based on race, even if for a good cause.

    Reply
  26. Mel

    Does anyone has any sense of how universities are planning to conduct campus interviews this year? Will all of that move online?

    Reply
  27. Michael Giudice

    Regarding York University’s philosophy position. As chair of the Department of Philosophy at York, I inquired ahead of posting the ad on PhilJobs and received this response from the APA executive:
    “The APA non-discrimination statement explicitly allows for affirmative action initiatives, which can take different shapes depending on the circumstances in different countries and different kinds of institutions. In particular, while it may be illegal in the US to establish an affirmative action initiative that requires (rather than prefers) applicants to be of a particular race or ethnicity, that may not be the case in other countries. The APA permits job ads that include affirmative action initiatives that are designed to increase the hiring of members of historically disadvantaged groups and that are in accordance with the laws and regulations that apply to the relevant institution.”
    Our department believes that the targeted hiring program marks an important progression in our affirmative action hiring practices, and fully supports the objective of improving the representation of Black faculty in our department and across academia.

    Reply
  28. that guy

    Thanks Michael! In light of what you wrote, I read the entire APA statement and I see that I missed the part regarding affirmative action. I can’t say that I am entirely comfortable with using race as a criterion in hiring, but I understand the motivation to do this. In any case, it is now clear to me York and the APA did not violate the APA’s stated policy. Good luck with the search and hire!

    Reply
  29. WestCoastL

    For the record, in the US it is illegal to “establish an affirmative action initiative” that requires OR prefers applicants to be a particular race (not just the former).
    York’s process would have been illegal in the US. So would a process in which race was not mentioned in the ad, but committee members preferred black (or white, etc.) applicants. That violates the Civil Rights Act, a federal law, so it applies everywhere in the US. (Fun fact: The only time that MLK, Jr. and Malcolm X ever met was to listen to debate on, and voice their support for, the Civil Rights Act.)
    Many other US jurisdictions, like my state, have further protections. I have no idea about Canadian law.

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  30. Thomas

    WestCoastL, Might MLK and Malcolm X supported the Civil Rights Act because at the time legislation that gave favourable treatment—not merely equal treatment—was so politically unrealistic? That is, that they supported it might not mean they would object to affirmative action practices.

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  31. ConstitutionAct1982

    @WestCoastL
    Regarding Canadian law: This type of affirmative action is written in to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Under the heading “Equality Rights”, Section 15 states that
    “(1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.”
    And, goes it on to say:
    “(2) Subsection (1) does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.”
    So, Section (2) is the relevant bit here.
    Also relevant is the Employment Equity Act (1995) whose purpose is “to achieve equality in the workplace so that no person shall be denied employment opportunities or benefits for reasons unrelated to ability and, in the fulfilment of that goal, to correct the conditions of disadvantage in employment experienced by women, Aboriginal peoples, persons with disabilities and members of visible minorities by giving effect to the principle that employment equity means more than treating persons in the same way but also requires special measures and the accommodation of differences.”
    So, Canadian law recognises that ‘equity’ is not equivalent to ‘equality’. Affirmative action of this sort is legal, they just call it ’employment equity’ (and apparently, it is called this specifically because ‘affirmative action’ is a US term, and already had negative connotation when these articles were drafted).

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  32. Evan

    that guy:
    Then you’d be more uncomfortable to know that applicants with “white-sounding” names get more interviews than “ethnic-sounding” names.
    Source from Harvard Business School: https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

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  33. Kombucha

    Evan: I think nobody here disagrees with the idea that affirmative action would be good.
    But I doubt that what you suggest is true for the philosophy job market (i.e. that applicants with minority sounding names get fewer interviews). I assume you don’t need to hang out with philosophy faculty too long before you hear “the dean wants us to hire a woman or a minority candidate”.
    To the extent that affirmative action is illegal, such disregard for the law is somewhat perplexing, esp. considering that lawsuits from disgruntled white men might be only a matter of time.

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  34. Evan

    Hi kombucha: I don’t have specific data on the hiring practices in philosophy, but it’s not impossible that the same can occur within philosophy to some extent considering that the majority of philosophers make up of (heterosexual) white men in the US. In fact, I highly recommend researchers do research on this for philosophy and let all cards fall down on the table.
    Also, some people like that guy have expressed that affirmative action is wrong or at least uncomfortable for them, so the word ”nobody” would be a hyperbole. It’s pretty obvious amongst most libertarian and conservative philosophers that affirmative is somehow wrong. There are even philosophical papers against affirmative action.
    It’s also interesting you’d say that ”such disregard for the law is somewhat perplexing” even though you mentioned previously that ”nobody here disagrees with the idea that affirmative action would be good.” On one hand, you acknowledge that it’s good or morally permissible to have affirmative action. On the other hand, you can’t seem to wrap your mind around people committing affirmative action even when it may be illegal to do so.
    I raised this dilemma because I’m pretty sure you yourself would support Rosa Parks when she refused to sit in the back of the bus since it was illegal for black people at the time to sit in the front. Some actions that negate certain laws are not so perplexing if we admit that such laws are not ethical in the first place. In other words, there are some people who are more committed to morality or justice than legality. Not all laws exhibit the virtue of justice and not all of them are ethical. Given this fact, people disregarding certain laws is not so perplexing to me.

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  35. My Name is not My Name

    I also wanted to respond to Kombucha’s strange throwaway comment, even if it’s not that important. Perhaps I just want to demonstrate that philosophers are not as politically monolithic as they might think.
    I am a philosopher who looks at this blog from time to time. I would classify myself as politically left of American liberals. I am opposed to most affirmative action programs, including any affirmative action hiring initiative in philosophy departments in North America with which I am familiar–meaning, I am aware of the rationale, mechanism, and results of the program.

    Reply
  36. Michel

    Please, let’s not go there.
    For the record, I have a European family name which is frequently mistaken for something non-European. It’s a conversation-starter, and that’s ok.
    But you would be pretty shocked at the things other philosophers have said to me, on the assumption that I wasn’t white. Often it’s clearly just well-intentioned ignorance. But on many occasions, it clearly wasn’t (e.g. imagine being called by a racial slur). What’s more, I know many people who’ve had similar experiences.

    Reply
  37. Thomas

    Not to change the subject but….
    What sites do people use to find jobs besides philjobs? I feel like I am missing some advertisements. Please help!

    Reply
  38. Hope to help

    Thomas,
    Here are three that I recall frequenting when I was on the market:
    HigherEdJobs: https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/search.cfm?JobCat=89
    For jobs in the UK:https://www.jobs.ac.uk/
    Another site: https://jobs.chronicle.com/jobs/philosophy/#browsing
    If you are religious or part of a society, there might be jobs posted on the site. For instance, if you are a bioethicist, here is where you might look: http://www.bioethics.net/jobs/page/2/
    Hope this helps!

    Reply
  39. oudeis

    In addition to philjobs, I look at jobs.ac.uk, the PHILOS-L listserv, and Inside Higher Ed. (For PHILOS-L, the list of archived messages can be daunting, but most–though I stress not all!–job advertisements have ‘JOB’ in their title.)

    Reply
  40. Assistant Professor

    @WestCoastL – could you clarify what law(s) and/or Supreme Court precedents you are citing when claiming the blanket illegality of affirmative action practices in the US? I am not familiar with any blanket federal illegality of all affirmative action practices, though many Supreme Court cases have weighed in on permissible and impermissible permutations of affirmative action practices.

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  41. Thomas

    Thanks so much, Hope to help and oudeis. There were indeed a few I didn’t know about. I really appreciate it. If anyone else happens to see one not yet mentioned I’d be grateful for any additional pointers.

    Reply
  42. Tom2

    Assistant Professor–
    The Civil Rights Act appears to be enshrined in law at 42 U.S.C. Sect. 2000e.
    Note two things. First, the claim was that AA programs that “require OR prefer applicants to be a particular race” are illegal. And that’s true. Nothing was said about the “blanket illegality of affirmative action practices in the US”. For example, I think it’s fine to advertise to women in order to get more applications from women. But you can’t make a person’s gender a point for or against her when hiring. That’s a federal civil rights violation.
    Second, there are some very narrow exceptions that almost never apply (and never when it comes to academic hiring). For example, if you’re hiring an actor to play Martin Luther King, Jr. in a movie, you can discriminate on the basis of race (a “bona fide occupational qualification”).
    The website of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has useful information about the law.

    Reply
  43. Assistant Professor

    Thanks @Tom2. I take it I misread @WestCoastL’s point in their post, which was merely to suggest that the York hiring requirements would be illegal under US law (with which we are all, it appears, familiar).
    The curious problem is, of course, how a strict reading of the law competes with other (ethical) values that academic departments, and especially philosophy departments, might think it is just to promote. That is to say, not merely not excluding someone due to facts about their gender, sex, racial, ethnic, ability, religious, age, etc. identities (those things that are recognized protected classes), but how the meaningfully pursue equity within the academy, and within philosophy.
    I appreciate York’s initiative because it makes its objectives and values transparent. When jobs in the US advertise for an AOS of “feminism” or “philosophy of race” they are likely trying to hire for particular (non-majority in philosophy) identities. But of course a problem with this practice is that not all people who work on feminism or philosophy of race identify as women or people of color, and people who do identify as women and people of color clearly work on many things other than feminism and philosophy of race, so it quickly gets messy in terms of what goal(s) these practices are trying to achieve.

    Reply
  44. Mercado

    Do folks think that the average time from a position’s application deadline to when a department extends an offer will be shorter or longer due to COVID?
    One consideration is that departments may conduct final round interviews and “campus visits” sooner than in the past because they won’t have to fly candidates out.
    Another consideration is that search committee members may be more busy with teaching than in the past because of the transition to online teaching.
    Of course this may differ at R1s, large teaching focused state universities and SLACs.

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  45. Thomas

    Should I use different page sizes for my applications to institutions in different countries (i.e. a4 in Europe and letter in US) or does it not really matter?

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  46. Both sides now

    Thomas
    It does not matter. I have worked on both continents. Just be professional in your general set up, etc.

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  47. Thomas

    Thank you, Both sides now.

    Reply
  48. Constant applicant

    Hello,
    I withdrew an application because I was told that the university to which I applied would not sponsor a work visa. Is this discrimination?

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  49. foreign worker

    Constant applicant,
    I would think not. I needed a labor certificate when I first worked in the US (as does all foreigners). The university is under NO obligation to do any such thing for you. And, then in time you need a work visa. Because of the relations between my country and the US, I was able to get a cheaper visa (at first). But I had to pay for it. Again, the law does not require institutions to pay for your visas.
    Many US schools will NOT pay for work visas.

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  50. Constant applicant

    Foreign worker,
    You don’t have to yell at me in caps! I now know for a fact that many US universities WILL sponsor and pay for the work visa if they decide on hiring a foreign candidate. That said, I also understand that they don’t have to do this. Those that are willing are the ones that truly value internationalism and diversity. Those that are not willing simply do not…

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  51. It’s expensive

    Constant applicant: sponsoring for visa, in particular h1b and green cards, is a costly process, and not not all schools can afford that.

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  52. Thom

    I have done all my schooling abroad but have US citizenship (that is, you wouldn’t know it from my CV). The discussion above has me wondering whether I should find a way to mention this in my applications. Any thoughts?

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  53. Born in the USA

    @Thom
    I’ve noticed that it’s fairly common for people not from the US to have a ‘personal data’ section on their CV, usually toward the top, near the contact information. This generally lists citizenship, and sometimes other data like one’s birthdate and marital status (which are both weird things to list if you’re used to the US system).
    I actually added a similar section to my CV listing my citizenship. I’m from the US and am a citizen, but my name tends to raise the ‘where are you from?’ question.

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  54. triple anon

    Permit me some complaining, and off topic at that. In addition to the complete lack of job market, it seems that journal submissions this year are taking about five times longer than they have in the past, presumably because everyone is too stressed out to do peer review work (in addition to inherent peer-review problems, e.g., unpaid labor, etc.) I received an r+r about six months ago with requests for what seemed to me to be some easy fixes, but still have yet to hear back about this new draft. The only thing harder than getting a job is getting a job when no one will help you improve your CV by actually reading and reviewing your work!
    Okay, rant over, thanks.

    Reply
  55. Michel

    Triple anon: my experience as a referee is that the timelines I’ve been given since April (and I’ve done a lot of refereeing since then!) have been shorter than usual. Like, one-month turnaround, instead of the three I remember from the beforetime, although I might be misremembering.
    As an author, my impression has been that journals are moving a little more quickly than usual (and I’ve published a lot this year, across specialist and generalist journals).
    So: I think there’s hope! Maybe you just got a bad batch. In the meantime, I’m sorry it’s taking so long. Especially for an R&R, which ought to be faster than the initial submission.

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  56. triple anon

    @Michel, thanks for the advice and camaraderie, and it’s good to feel hopeful.

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  57. Marian

    To echo Michel: I’ve received decisions on my journal submissions quicker than in the past since the pandemic started. Granted, they were all rejections, but they were rejections with good and detailed comments.

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  58. triple anon

    @Marian, perhaps I’ve just had bad luck with my three current submissions.

    Reply
  59. Michel

    Oof, three? That’s a lot to have taking longer than usual.
    FWIW, I discovered yesterday that one paper which I refereed over four months ago still hasn’t received a verdict. Since the turnaround deadline was one month, I can only imagine that they’ve struggled to find a second referee, or someone has managed to drag their feet quite a bit, or both. (I think the paper’s a shoo-in, too, which makes the lag even worse!)
    I suppose it’s possible that it’s the same referee or two gumming things up on your end, especially if the papers are clustered on the same sorts of topics? Shrug. Anyway, I’m very sorry.

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  60. triple anon

    @Michel, that’s entirely possible, and in any case I do appreciate the sympathy! I understand why these delays happen, but it’s nice to be able to bemoan the minor stress that they cause to a sympathetic audience.

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  61. Marian

    @triple anon,
    if you are risk averse it might be good that the journal hasn’t got back to you. Although an acceptance looks a lot better than an r and r to a search committee, an r and r looks a lot better than nothing (a rejection).

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  62. Anun

    UNC has an open TT position, the deadline for which has already passed. Today they’ve advertised another TT position (PPE, broadly construed).
    If one has already applied to the open position, is there any issue with applying for the PPE position? I suppose this would just involve a minor change to the cover letter. . I’d assume that a drastic change would come across as too much tailoring, but maybe I’m wrong?

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  63. Assistant Professor

    @Anun: If your AOS/AOC fit with the PPE position then it seems appropriate to also apply to that position. The committees are likely composed of different faculty so the same people who reviewed your dossier for the Open position would not be the ones looking at you for the PPE position. I would be curious to hear from others what sharing of information goes on between two search committees at the same institution in the same year from those who have had this experience directly.
    Given this: I would certainly tailor your cover letter to fit the job explicitly, even if that meant a significant revision, and would send the writing sample that best illustrates your suitability for a PPE job whether or not it is the writing sample you sent for the open position. I would imagine your CV and teaching dossier would remain unchanged, and your research statement is probably still your research statement (if it doesn’t fit with PPE already then I would think you are not a good fit for this job). In my mind the cover letter ought to be tailored to each and every job (though from a basic framework that you use as a model each time) and this is no exception.

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  64. Anun

    @Assistant Professor: That’s extremely helpful and seems exactly right to me. Thank you!

    Reply
  65. Reluctant

    “Academe’s Disturbing Indifference to Racism”
    https://www.chronicle.com/article/academes-disturbing-indifference-to-racism?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_1757535_nl_Chronicle-Review_date_20201130&cid=cr&source=ams&sourceId=5261360

    Reply
  66. Annika

    The Interfolio page for the Hecht-Levi Postdoc in Bioethics prompts applicants to submit non-confidential letters of reference. (https://apply.interfolio.com/78660 – I think you have to log in to see what I mean, unfortunately.) I’ve never encountered this and honestly don’t feel comfortable asking my referees to submit their letters non-confidentially. Has anyone else encountered this and does anyone have a suggestion? Thanks guys.

    Reply
  67. Nathan

    Some community college applications also request non-confidential letters of rec. To handle this I just wrote my letter writers and informed them I would need them to write new letters which met this requirement, and which I would personally upload. I just sent the ad to my letter writers to confirm, and they got it after some initial confusion. I’d just acknowledge that it’s weird and uncomfortable but that’s the job market for you.

    Reply
  68. automaton against automation

    How do we get the University of Toronto automated recommender system to stop generating letter requests? I am still getting multiple letter requests from the Scarborough job and it is using up my Interfolio deliveries.

    Reply
  69. curious

    I’ve read several places that the job market this year has many fewer job postings and therefore much more applicants per job post. (This seems right, but) has anyone collected data on this yet? If so, could someone please point me in the direction of said data/analysis? Thank you!

    Reply
  70. helpplz

    Does anyone have advice for giving a Zoom job talk during an online campus visit? I usually read a paper, but I don’t know how I’ll read a paper on Zoom without looking ridiculous. Help!

    Reply
  71. help for helpplz

    @helpplz I agree with you that reading a paper is probably not the way to go — would slides/screen share work for you? Or if you are really used to reading the paper, maybe you could share your screen with a “handout” with quotes on it?

    Reply
  72. Michel

    Given that you’re committed to reading, I suggest using a teleprompter (or teleprompter software) or a second monitor. It’s really easy to set up a second monitor (or someone else’s laptop, etc.).

    Reply
  73. virtual campus visitor

    what kind of questions should one ask during the many one-to-one meetings of virtual flyouts? should I ask a question from the dean of arts and sciences? from faculty members? if so, what questions you recommend? what questions you suggest to avoid?

    Reply
  74. Rosa

    helpplz: How committed are you to reading the paper? My sense is that many search committee/department members will look quite negatively on that whether on zoom or in person, and will infer from it (not saying rightly!) bad things about your teaching.

    Reply
  75. zdemoz

    Has anyone given a teaching demo over Zoom? Any thoughts about strategies are welcome!

    Reply
  76. Gambling Addict

    Zdemoz: I just did one recently. I tried to incorporate a group discussion component into the teaching demo. It didn’t go very well since half the audience was physically together in a room and the other half were zooming in from disparate locations and I had no control over breakout rooms. So I’d recommend going over in advance with the committee what you want to do during the demo to see if they can help you set it up.

    Reply
  77. down the drain

    Well, it looks like that’s it for me, folks. I struck out, zero interviews. I don’t think I can stick around for another year. Time to put my energy into finding another job, I guess.

    Reply
  78. lottery player n

    @down the drain:
    It’s rough out there. 8 peer reviewed pubs in solid venues, 3 book chapters and a book contract with a top press and I’m in the same boat with respect to interviews. There’s little that can be done about it from the applicant’s side, it seems to me. If indeed you do find yourself forced to leave the profession, I hope you find yourself in a good place.

    Reply
  79. down the drain

    Thanks, lottery player. I understood this was the almost guaranteed outcome, but it still hurts.

    Reply
  80. Marcus Arvan

    down the drain: I don’t know what exactly your situation is (and I empathize), but good things can still happen. I did not get my first job offer until March, and it was completely out of the blue. And I’ve known people who got full time jobs the summer before those jobs started. Job ads can still be posted in the spring too. Fwiw

    Reply
  81. Your drain is backing up

    I am with Marcus. My first one year position after my PhD was not offered to me until July 1 – and classes started in Sept. And my first TT position was only offered to me in late April. Things happen … it may be worth not throwing in the towel yet!

    Reply
  82. false hope

    I agree that good things could happen, but I wouldn’t like to offer ‘down the drain’ false hope that good things are likely to happen. They aren’t. I like the encouraging environment of this blog, but I worry that sometimes it is too much so. I, for one, would not be willing to be looking for a permanent faculty position for years on end. I don’t think “throwing in the towel” is defeat or imprudent. I think it is often realistic and wise.

    Reply
  83. down the drain

    I think I’m in the same camp with false hope. Is it within the realm of possibility that another TT job could come around in the spring or summer that I am eligible for and potentially land? Yes, it’s possible. Is this possibility anywhere near the realm of things that are likely to happen, or that I should even hold out enough hope for to plan around? No, I don’t think so. For personal reasons, I am not willing to apply for short-term positions that would require me to move my family. Given that additional constraint, I think realistically this door is shut.

    Reply
  84. Had it

    It is not only nonsensical but also out right mean to encourage people to stay in the market. it is like telling someone all will be well because they’re going to win the lottery and this is not a misanalogy…

    Reply
  85. decisiontime

    How do people feel about the choice between prestigious postdoc vs. mid-level(?) prestige TT offer? I get that it partly comes down to how risk-averse one is but I wonder if there are other considerations to be had before deciding

    Reply
  86. Marcus Arvan

    decisiontime: here’s my two cents. I’m inclined to think that the decision should depend on (at least) two things:
    (1) How good the TT offer is. Is the job in a place you would be happy living? Does the university seem to have a healthy culture, or is it a mess? How is the university’s financial situation? (A really important thing nowadays). I have friends who accepted TT jobs at very prestigious places and are miserable there (due to bad culture and unachievable tenure standards), as well as friends who accepted TT jobs in mid-level places who are really happy there (because it’s a great place to work, in a great city, the uni provides a lot of financial support, etc.).
    (2) How likely are you to get another TT offer, or one better than the one you have now? As we all know, the job market is a mess, and it’s entirely possible that this TT offer is the only one you’ll ever get. On the flipside, if you’re a ‘rock star’, got a bunch of interviews and flyouts, and the prestigious postdoc is likely to get you where you really want to be, then I could see that choice making sense.
    One final thing perhaps worth bearing in mind: higher education is likely to be more of a mess in coming years, not less. Many universities are axing departments already, and enrollment in higher ed is expected to plummet by 2025, which will almost certainly lead to more ‘belt tighening’ (i.e. layoffs). Bearing this in mind, my thought is that if the uni you have the TT offer from is in very good financial shape (and a stable student market), the job may be worth taking.

    Reply
  87. ABC

    “One final thing perhaps worth bearing in mind: higher education is likely to be more of a mess in coming years, not less. Many universities are axing departments already, and enrollment in higher ed is expected to plummet by 2025, which will almost certainly lead to more ‘belt tightening’ (i.e. layoffs). Bearing this in mind, my thought is that if the uni you have the TT offer from is in very good financial shape (and a stable student market), the job may be worth taking.”
    This, this, 1000x this. If you’re even asking the question, the TT opportunity it acceptable, in which case you should take it. Also, you shouldn’t discount how TT experience will add to your appeal should you decide to “apply out”.

    Reply
  88. decisiontime

    @Marcus, @ABC
    What you two say make a lot of sense– I’ve heard some schools are trying to encourage retirement for senior faculty (?) but maybe that won’t be enough to help the market for the next few years…
    And I do feel apologetic for the question being somewhat tone-deaf given the difficult market. So extra thanks for your gracious answers

    Reply
  89. working person

    Decisiontime
    Do not count on people retiring and jobs opening up … First, many of us in my cohort were on the market so long before getting a TT that we have very little in retirement savings. I will almost certainly work until 69 (and possibly longer). I have a family to support. I am already supporting an aging mother. The costs related to her health and well-being will increase with time. Second, universities do not replace all the positions they free up with retirements. What they do is take the opportunity to do some cost saving.

    Reply
  90. negotiate?

    @decisiontime
    Are you not able to defer your tt job for a year or two for the postdoc? I know that is a thing that happens. I know people, for example, who negotiated to defer a tt position for year to take a Bersoff and I was a lecturer at a place where an incoming assistant prof deferred for a year to finish the second year their then current postdoc.

    Reply
  91. Wondering

    Has anyone heard anything about Dartmouth’s TT search? The deadline was November 1st but it seems no one has heard from them at all.
    Also, I wonder what folks think about the APA providing some guidelines in terms of communicating with applicants. Given the horrible state of the market, it would be a good thing if applicants receive some word or communication from search committees within, say, two months from a position deadline.

    Reply
  92. decisiontime

    @working person: Alas, I hear that. Are these decisions based on enrollment?? i.e. if there were more phil majors or phil classes were otherwise more popular universities would create more lines?
    @negotiate?: right, that’s the ideal option. I sense they have immediate needs but wouldn’t hurt to ask, I suppose.

    Reply
  93. anon

    The latest job posting for the American University of Cairo is strangely sparse: https://philjobs.org/job/show/16718
    Even when you follow the link, there is basically no information about the job. I’m not sure if this is on purpose (i.e. for an inside candidate), or what. It’s sort of baffling.
    At any rate, best of luck to anyone planning to customize a cover letter for a job that has almost no description of the contract (is it TT? NTT? one-year? one course?), no stated AOS/AOC, and no details about the general expectations of the position, etc.!
    (If anyone knows folks at AUC, perhaps it would be worth inviting them to add some detail to their posting!)

    Reply
  94. working person

    decisiontime
    Enrolments can affect whether a line is renewed when someone retires. But it is not always a good strategy for a department to try to build up enrollments in “popular” courses. You find you are all teaching a bunch of bullshit that appeals to students who are “consumers” and concerned with “popular” issues. I left a department that was going up in flames, as jackass colleagues were choosing to go down such a path. They have less than half the TT lines they had when I was there. It was largely their own doing.

    Reply
  95. Anon2

    Anon re AUC…reading the philjobs ad, it seems to say quite clearly that it is a ” fixed-term, one-year position” with open AOS/AOC. Not sure what the confusion is about

    Reply
  96. Want to move to Egypt for one year?

    @anon2 The advertisement was updated yesterday to include all that information. @Anon was right that initially it included no description at all.

    Reply
  97. no winning

    @working person: ugh, that’s terrible! I’m glad that my department did not go that route.
    Instead, we found ways to get our gen ed and minor courses stuffed with students. It didn’t help: they still took lines for us and asked us to increase the enrollment caps.
    There is no winning.

    Reply
  98. artur

    Naive question: What is a “line”?

    Reply
  99. straight talk on lines

    Artur,
    A line is a TT job in a department. A department might traditionally have 5 TT positions (or 10 or …). When someone retires or moves elsewhere, or is denied tenure there are two typical ways this can affect a department. They can retain the line, and hire a replacement in a year or so. Or the line is lost – and they are now a department of 4 TT positions (or 9 … or …).
    Who decides: often it is precedent, but ultimately administrators decided. That is why it is important to make good hires. To hire and have someone move on, or not get tenure can be a disaster for many years to come.

    Reply
  100. anon

    I know this is a perennial issue, but it bears repeating: if you are on a search committee, and you interview someone, and you tell them you will be in touch in X days, and it’s 3X days now, that’s incredibly rude.
    In general, I don’t find it compelling whatsoever that departments have to abide by various HR requirements, and thus, cannot share more details, etc. There are ways to inform candidates where they stand without violating HR requirements. There is no reason to string them along, and then ghost them.
    If you are reading this and are a search committee member, or will be in the future, please consider finding ways to show some humanity to the people you interview. It’s already such a miserable, soul-draining process. There’s no reason to make it worse through neglect and indifference.

    Reply
  101. artur

    straight talk on lines,
    Many thanks for your informative answer. I didn’t know I could have so many mysteries resolved by such a short paragraph. I’m very glad I asked.

    Reply
  102. artur

    How many candidates typically comprise a “long list”? And what sorts of factors are typically used determine who makes it off the long list and onto the “short list”?

    Reply
  103. Fantasma

    Just to harp on the issue of search committees neglecting to communicate with a job candidate after an interview:
    No matter what is the case about HR or whatever university regulation, if an SC member tells a candidate at the end of an interview that they will communicate with them about the next step by X date, then they should communicate something to the candidate by that date.
    Out of three first-round interviews that I’ve had, 2 SCs didn’t communicate anything to me by a date they set as X date.
    Just don’t tell a candidate anything if rules preclude it.
    Better yet just tell candidates that if they don’t receive news by X date, then they haven’t made the cut.

    Reply
  104. limning limbo

    There’s bizarre comfort in reading Fantasma’s and anon’s posts. I’d echo both, and stress that a lack of communication seems especially challenging for a candidate if the interview in question was a final round/on-campus interview.

    Reply
  105. Clarity

    Did anyone get on-campus/final-round with LSU Philosophy and Religious Studies and if so, have you heard back?

    Reply
  106. artur

    @Clarity
    You’re asking in the wrong thread–try the Job-market reporting thread (top of side bar).

    Reply
  107. Listing

    Long and short list can very A LOT. Sometimes a long list is just a first round of cuts, where each search committee members, say, chooses 10 final candidates. If so, it might be as long as 40. It might also mean it is the list of “skype interviews” so as few as 8. Short list might mean second round cuts, or might even mean flyouts. So it could vary from 3-20.
    Having search on search committees, often being on the long list doesn’t mean you have close to a shot. The committee rules demand choosing so many people in a first round cut, and the top candidates are so far above the bottom ones that the bottom ones might as well have been cut from the start.

    Reply
  108. artur

    @Listing thanks very much for the demystification!

    Reply
  109. UK Grad

    I recently saw a job posted online with an application deadline of less than 48hrs after the job was posted. I’ve been scanning the usual venues for such posting pretty frequently and I have not seen this particular job advertised elsewhere. Is this unusual? And in particular, is this evidence that the post is set up for an inside hire? If it matters, this is in the UK.

    Reply
  110. Amma

    @UK grad, what is the listing?

    Reply
  111. from afar

    About long and short lists
    Just to state the obvious, the terms mean very different things in different national contexts. Where I am the people who make the first cut are on what is called a short list – and they will be told that they are shortlisted. But they may not get an interview – a shortlist can include 12 or even 20 people. Maybe only 3 will get interviews. But this is the way the terms are used where I work – and this is the way they are used across the nation.
    This causes some confusion for people who think if you are shortlisted, then you are one of the three finalists.

    Reply
  112. artur

    @from afar: thank you very much—for me at least that was not an instance of stating the obvious.
    I have to ask: what is the point of contacting people on a list, long or short, if they are not going to make it to the next stage? Which isn’t to say it’s bad. It seems like it will get people’s hopes up, but on the other hand it is encouraging to know you were at least in the running.

    Reply
  113. Amanda

    Artur – It is probably a policy, that might or might not have been made with good intentions – by either the admin or the department. However, whoever made the rule might have left that school long ago, and the policy continues without much thought.
    As to why persons might have come up with it in the first place? Well faculty and/or admin were sitting around a table, talking about job searches and how to conduct them, when someone points out how hard it can be for candidates to be left in the dark about the stage of the search. Then another faculty points out that by not letting top candidates know they are in the running, the department might lose a top choice to another school. What soon follows is a proposed rule about notifications, a vote, and then a very long-lasting and rarely reflected on policy.

    Reply
  114. from afar

    Artur
    I think you are misunderstanding the sort of way the system works here. Candidates deemed qualified are on a short list (it could be 12 to 20). They are assessed by one group. And then another committee then invites a subset of these people for interviews, ranging from 3 to 5. But all 12 to 20 are called shortlisted. It is a difference of terms – a difference of cultures.

    Reply
  115. JDF

    For some jobs, especially some in the UK, long-listing also comes with a request for further information, such as requests for letters of reference or writing samples, which are not included in the original application.

    Reply
  116. artur

    Thanks Amanda, afar, and JDF. Really appreciate the insight. I don’t have much to add but I will say on reflection that I have been long-listed for a couple of jobs for which I was ultimately not interviewed and there was considerable epistemic value for me in knowing my materials and references were good enough at least for that. So (again on reflection) I would support letting candidates know, whatever the real rationale is.

    Reply
  117. Drew

    If I just had an interview, should I mention that fact in follow-up emails with other schools? If so, should I specifically name the (reputed) school?

    Reply
  118. wondering

    Is there a place where people discuss hiring information about alt/ac posts targeted at philosophers (e.g. the Notre Dame Center job)?

    Reply
  119. Marcus Arvan

    wondering: I’m not sure—but I’d be happy to start a thread here on the Cocoon for that. It actually sounds like a great idea to me!

    Reply
  120. School C.

    @Drew: Congrats on the interview with school A, but I would not mention it in correspondence with other prospective employers like school B. If you had an offer, rather than just having been offered an interview, my advice would be different.
    The one exception is that if school B gives you an offer and is really putting on the pressure to decide, you might ask for more time and justify that with the fact that you had recently been interviewed by school A.

    Reply
  121. Just-wondering

    If I’ve heard nothing from a university and haven’t seen anyone post anything related to it, how long should I wait to send a follow up email? In particular, for positions that I have a particular interest in (but might not be generally of high interest—I mention this to ward off concerns about swamping committees with emails). For example: a somewhat niche post-doc in my hometown. Would also be curious to hear more general advice with respect to this.
    Thank you, Marcus, and everyone else for this thread!

    Reply
  122. Michel

    Just-wondering: if you haven’t heard, assume you’re not getting it and move on.

    Reply
  123. Enough

    I wonder what the regulars of this blog think of job ads in the US that explicitly state that their position is for only citizens or permanent residents of America…

    Reply
  124. Michel

    Enough: while technically all American jobs are supposed to prioritize hiring Americans (just like Canadian jobs for Canadians), in practice R1s, R2s, and well-off SLACs are happy to hire non-Americans.
    But if the ad specifically says it’s only for Americans and permanent residents, then you should take them at their word: they won’t make any effort to help you get a work permit, and they’ll probably just junk your application if you don’t meet that criterion.

    Reply
  125. Fav

    @Enough: I think there have always been some ads like that, generally from smaller schools in the US that are unable to sponsor visas (e.g. because of cost, competitiveness, etc.). Have you noticed an uptick in ads stating that?

    Reply
  126. Enough

    @Fav: yes, but in another field.
    in general, i thought this was discrimination, which of course is illegal…

    Reply
  127. Michel

    Enough: “Foreign national” is not a protected category.

    Reply
  128. Daniel Weltman

    @Enough: For what it’s worth, quite a few countries prioritize nationals when hiring, such that to hire a non-national entails resources and effort that are beyond some institutions (smaller, non-elite ones, for instance). The practice is not unique to the US. (In fact, the state in India where I live just passed a law prioritizing hiring of state residents over Indians from outside the state, let alone foreigners.) It is indeed discrimination, but as Michel points out, this discrimination is legal in many places.

    Reply
  129. Enough

    @Michel: Legalisms do not justify discriminating against us.

    Reply
  130. Michel

    Enough: sure, it may or may not be morally justified. But it isn’t illegal, as you suggested.
    (FTR, I’m not American either.)

    Reply
  131. lottery player n

    Today — very nearly 1 calendar month after submitting an online application, I received an email from Interfolio that my request to upload letters there had been executed. Any sense of why on earth this might have taken so long?
    (The post used a university application form and applicants were supposed to include email addresses for letter writers. Whenever I see these, I always use the special interfolio generated addresses for recommenders that will have them upload automatically.)

    Reply
  132. historygrrrl

    @lottery player n: Double check the job ad. Some places want actual letters at the time of application, whereas others want ‘names of people we can contact for letters.’
    In the latter case, letters will sometimes be requested only after they have narrowed down the applicant pool. If that’s the case, it would explain the delay – and would also mean that you’ve survived the first cut!

    Reply
  133. lottery player n

    @historygrrrl (was that the right number of rs?)
    Thanks — it seems the ad no longer exists. It was for one of the Oxford jobs, so presumably first cut or not, it won’t matter in the end. But that’s interesting! I’d thought that the “virtual upload” would’ve put the letters up automatically at the time of submission (so that they could be downloaded, say, with the rest of the dossier). Accordingly, I was a bit nervous when I didn’t see the delivery in the Interfolio account. Anyway, thanks for the helpful reply about how it actually works.

    Reply
  134. Andy

    It does seem a bit weird that an Oxford job would request letters after one month. My impression is that in the UK letters are only used very late in the process (like, just before an offer is made) in order to just check that you are who you say you are etc. Certainly, this is the HR rule at my University. Oxford is a bit weird though, so maybe they do things differently.

    Reply
  135. anon

    In case anyone saw the job posting for the position at the American University of Malta and was considering applying, it would be worth taking a careful look at how things appear to be run there, as indicated in this IHE article: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/01/09/controversial-start-university-fires-founding-faculty-members
    (I know nothing more than I’ve read there; I have no affiliation or inside knowledge of AUM. Just happened to have Googled it and saw this and thought I’d pass it along. Also, to be clear, I’m not applying.)

    Reply
  136. Vapgoingfortt

    Should a VAP expect to get interviewed for a TT position in the same department?

    Reply
  137. JDF

    ‘Should a VAP expect to get interviewed for a TT position in the same department?’
    No. You should consider your candidacy for it as about the same as your candidacy for any other job at a similar institution.

    Reply
  138. Vapgoingfortt

    JDF, thanks for your reply! My question was ambiguous. I meant to ask if they department wants you, would they want to interview you like anyone else, or given that they know you already, it’s likely that they would want to skip the interview? T

    Reply
  139. Marcus Arvan

    Vapgoingfortt: they can’t skip the interview. HR would never let that fly—at least not at a US university in my experience.

    Reply
  140. You’re just visiting.

    Vapgoingfortt, I have been in this precise situation and know several other people who have been. The previous comments are correct. One is lucky to get a TT interview (most VAP people I know did not get one) and if one does one will be treated like any other candidate.

    Reply
  141. artur

    Over this year and the last I have had a few interviews for amazing jobs and a few great long lists where I had to choose to send in this or that writing sample. I have a really hard time not regretting my decisions—if only I’d done this instead of that in the interview, if only I’d sent in that paper…It is a pointless enterprise, not to mention a pretty draining one, but I can’t seem not to fixate on things that I might have done differently. I spose this is more a question for a psychologist, but maybe someone here has some strategies for becoming more forward-looking on the market. The stakes are so high that just hard not to think: that one thing would have made my life so much better…

    Reply

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