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Applying to grad school 20 years after undergrad?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a reader writes:

I graduated from a top US undergrad almost 20 years ago, and I took a few philosophy courses that fascinated me but did not major in the subject. Many years later, I am passionate about philosophy and philosophical questions and have done a lot of thinking and theorizing on my own. I fundamentally want to "do philosophy" and attempt to answer the great questions. I am fortunate enough that I could self-fund any formal education.

I'm not sure where I should go from here. There are online masters programs at certain UK schools, and there is also the option of writing on my own and submitting it informally for comment and critique. I don't have the "proper" resume to gain admission at most philosophy graduate programs because I didn't explicitly major in philosophy, but I did do well in the courses I did take and I have engaged with the subject a great deal on my personal time. Even my professional work has had an element of "applied epistemology" to it.

I would ultimately like to pursue a PhD for its own sake and I would like to engage with others who are working on philosophy and who are passionate about it.

Should I take an online philosophy MA at The Open University (UK) and then apply to PhD programs? I've also seen more specialized online masters programs at Edinburgh and Birmingham. Should I just write as much as possible on my own and submit it in different places? Should I look for a philosophy "mentor"?

These are all good questions. I'd suggest trying to begin by taking some graduate-level courses as a non-degree-seeking student. My spouse did this after undergrad because she wanted to go to a top PhD program in another discipline, and it worked like a charm. Although I could be wrong, I expect good grad programs will want to see that someone who has been away from academia for a while can cut it in grad-level courses–and also, taking some courses as a non-degree-seeking student may be important for getting recommendation letters, which I suspect one needs to apply to most grad programs.

But these are just my thoughts. What are yours?

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9 responses to “Applying to grad school 20 years after undergrad?”

  1. older-phd-student

    I got admitted into a PhD program 15 years after doing my (first) undergraduate degree. Before I applied to graduate school, I went and did a second bachelor’s degree online. It was a good way for me to get back into academics and become more qualified. I definitely recommend taking courses of some type before applying.

    Reply
  2. K

    Terminal MAs are good for this sort of thing, but preferably MAs with courses (rather than just a thesis). Taking grad level courses like Marcus suggests is also good. Online classes may be fine but you’ll want a way to get to know your professors.

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  3. Grad Student

    It seems to me that to be accepted to a good PhD program given your life story will require good recommendation letters from professors who know you well and appreciate you to explain the situation in their letters and convince the admissions committee to accept you.
    Also, in terms of the ability to self-fund, I’m not sure if it’s too relevant to top schools in the US because they automatically fund their (tiny group of) PhD students. It might be more relevant to lower-tier schools. However, it is definitely relevant to the UK where funding is not automatic and accordingly, the cohorts are larger and the chances to get accepted are higher (but it does cost a lot without funding).

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  4. Prof L

    Top schools in the US look primarily for evidence of a history of prestige and then for philosophical aptitude. The quality and maturity of your work/sample do not matter as much, because they will teach you the right sort of philosophy anyway. Exceptions occur when they have to recruit people from traditionally minority groups. So if you are not from a traditionally minority group, I’d venture a guess that you have a good chance of getting into at least one top program if you indeed have something close to a philosophy degree from a US News top 10 or something.

    Reply
  5. Edinburgh Grad

    I can attest to the quality of Edinburgh’s online MSc program in philosophy. I came from a no-name undergraduate institution, and studying through Edinburgh set me up for relative success in PhD admissions. Doing an online master’s after a haitus from higher education also gives you a chance to meet ptential letter writers and recieve feedback on a writing sample. I’d recommend doing it. (Even if you could get into a PhD program without a master’s degree, you’ll likely get into a better one if you have the degree.)

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  6. PhD program realism please

    @Prof L even if what you are saying is true–which in my experience doing graduate admissions and talking to others who do, it absolutely is not–it doesn’t follow that the person has a good chance. Acceptance rates at top programs are extremely low, and the applicant pool is heavily slanted towards elite schools. Even if there is bias towards students from elite schools (which I think there is at some of the top programs, but not in the way you suggest where it trumps writing sample, coursework, level of preparation, etc.), there are many, many such students competing against each other in the applicant pools.
    I just wanted to say this because I didn’t want the original questioner to get the wrong sense of how competitive it is to get into PhD programs. Given what they say, just purely based on number of philosophy courses taken and even setting aside the quality of the writing sample, I doubt it would be possible for them to get into a reputable PhD program without doing a masters first. (I teach at a lower-ranked PhD program but also talk to many people who do admissions at higher ranked ones; the acceptance rate in my own program is usually around 5-6% (that’s total acceptance–people who are initially waitlisted, etc., and again, my program is ranked low), and we are less overwhelmed by applications from students from elite schools, but we still get a disproportionate number of them.)

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  7. A little jealous

    If you are willing to do a PhD outside the US I would suggest you look into that option. From what I am aware of many very good schools outside the US have much higher PhD acceptance rates—largely because they just get many many less applications. Look at the best universities in Europe, the UK (past oxbridge), Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, etc and see if there are people you would be interested in working with.
    It may help also that in several of these places it is much more normal to do a PhD without first doing an MA (straight from a BA). I also know that in Australia funding is not directly tied to admissions in the way it is in the US, but tuition can be less expensive than the UK, which might be a good way to go if you are able to fund yourself (but don’t want to spend all your retirement savings).
    I know from family experience that some Australian universities are also relatively happy to take on mature age PhD students who might not be thought of as prospects for having a traditional career but who can really contribute.
    Finally, I just want to encourage you to go ahead with the plan. Its great to interact with people who are just excited to do philosophy and I think it can only benefit us all to have more of them around (I am somewhat envious of your position; having to do philosophy as a way to live sometimes makes it a lot harder to even try to answer big questions, let alone THE big questions.)

    Reply
  8. Prof. Miidlife

    I’d say go for it. I did under similar circumstances and it worked out. But I think you need to do a masters first — the odd one or two grad courses on the side won’t cut it, unless your undergrad BA was in something that overlaps significantly with analytic philosophy (e.g. math).
    And you’ll need a strong letter from a reputable philosopher, which means it’ll have to be someone you write a substantial paper for. Even with these credentials — and they’re both necessary — some places will be wary, if only because you’re an unusual story and selective PhD programs can afford to be risk-averse. But I’d guess that at least a few will be impressed and some may even consider your maturity, sophistication, life experience and well-considered choice of philosophy to be big pluses. I now I would.

    Reply
  9. T

    I did something very similar: went back for a terminal MA 11 years after my BA. I was fortunate in that professors I took classes with in undergrad were still at my institution took a chance on me and allowed me to enter unfunded (though later they did find some nice funding sources, too). Somewhat surprisingly, I found that I was still pretty good at philosophy and decided to go on for my PhD at a PGR ranked institution, and it’s worked out very well.
    Similar to what others have said, I would strongly recommend a terminal MA, which will give you a solid foundation, writing samples, and new letter writers for your PhD application. Otherwise you’ll have to rely on either work recommendation letters (not at all valuable) or hope you can get letters of recommendation from professors who, after 20 years, would find it difficult to speak to your current capabilities.
    If you’re only looking to do the PhD for its own sake, then a self-funded UK PhD (such as Birmingham) might be a good option for you, though it is expensive. US philosophy PhD programs rarely, if ever, admit unfunded students, and it simply won’t be good enough to want to do the PhD for its own sake. So it sounds like the remote UK option might be best.
    Good luck with your studies!

    Reply

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