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Job workloads in continental Europe?

In our February "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

I have a question about workload in continental Europe which came to me based on EuroProf’s interesting comment in the recent “was it worth it?” thread. I had always romanticized a job in continental Europe as I imagined the non-research workload would be better (i.e. smaller) than in the other places I have worked (US and UK). (I’m sure this varies by country but perhaps that variation can be noted.) EuroProf’s comment made me think I was just fantasizing. All the teaching and meetings and grading, the requirement to apply for grants, which isn’t there in the anglophone world, is this an accurate picture of philosophy in the continent (I’m especially interested in permanent jobs)?

Good question. I've heard anecdotally that one can spend an inordinate time applying for grants in Europe. But in general, I have little idea what workloads look like in Europe.

Do any readers have any helpful insights to share? It would be great to hear from people working in a diverse variety of institutions and European countries.

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10 responses to “Job workloads in continental Europe?”

  1. sahpa

    The grant-writing stuff is real, and compounded if you want to be a good prof who also helps your students and postdocs write their grant applications. (Note: be a good prof! Do this!) Administrative load is also often higher than in the US. The (much maligned!) administration at US unis is much more developed and does the scut work US profs thereby get to ignore. In Europe, uni admin is much more skeletal and the day to day administrative duties and governance fall more heavily on professors. I have had fairly close working relationships with two profs in Europe who have almost no time to do their own research. And they are in very good positions.
    In this respect, I often feel that US faculty who whine about the administration at their uni might not appreciate how good they’ve got it. (Having said that: the UK has a reputation even in Europe for its extreme admin burdens on faculty!)
    But so, yes, in my experience: the OP has been in a fantasy.

    Reply
  2. sahpa

    Sorry, I should have explained where this is coming from: I have spent several (5+ years) in Europe across my PhD and postdoc years. And by ‘Europe’ I mean mainland or continental Europe. I don’t count UK as Europe anymore 😉

    Reply
  3. M

    I am a professor in continental Europe.
    I worked in many other countries before, but not as a professor.
    Personally, I feel (almost always) that this is a great job, and fulfills the idealized expectations I had during my postdoc years.
    My teaching load is, approximately, 1-1. I believe the number of teaching hours is slightly smaller than in some neighboring countries.
    While I have teaching assistants (about 2 per course), there is no grading during the semester (the final exam counts for 100%, and can be repeated throughout the year).
    I estimate my working time to be so divided: 20-25% teaching (and teaching-related activities); 5-10% admin (I suspect this will increase at some point); 65-70% research.
    Funding for Ph.D. students is provided, but if you want postdocs you very often need grants. Getting grants is variably difficult (from easy to extremely difficult for large grants), but largely not expected in our fields.
    Anything that involves a decision indeed has to be done by faculty, thus faculty have to sit on many committees. Moreover, I was slightly suprised to find out that you have to be a bit of a manager and organizer (TAs, doctoral students, postdocs, potentially technicians or admins).
    All in all, I feel I have more time and space to do research now than when I had a 100% research position, but was not tenured. Supervising students and mentoring junior colleagues is wonderful.

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  4. Euro

    I work at a university in Europe, after working at universities in North America. First, the grant application culture is real – where I am, you cannot even have a PhD student without the support of a grant. Second, the teaching load is much better here, though undergraduate classes are large lecture classes. As someone else noted, there is NO GRADING during the semester, only a final exam. The students are also more responsible about their education than typical North American students. It is on them. There is less opportunity to connect with students, but this way of teaching keeps you focused on effective teaching (rather than ensuring students are enjoying themselves). Third, the time and resources for research are fantastic. I do not have to carefully decide which conference I will go to this year, knowing I cannot afford more than one or two. (I am now at a different stage in my career, where I am invited to a number of conferences – this helps as well), Fourth, the administrative work is MUCH less.
    I serve on one committee whose work is genuinely important for the university and my colleagues. The committee members work together to solve real problems, rather than talk endlessly about issues the administration has already decided on. I also love living in Europe. I like the general attitude, and I like living in and visiting historically important places.

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  5. Europe is big

    For those who contributes: it would be better to specify in which European country you work. I’m saying this because I have collaborators who work in the Nerherlands, Germany, and Austria, and as professors their teaching load is bad (worse than UK and US, though grading is different and less of a burden). I read that also in France the load is bad (for maitre de conference).

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  6. everwhat

    Given my experience talking with friends, visiting, and interviewing for a couple positions in Europe (Netherlands and UK) which I did not get, there is no argument that work conditions are better in Europe. Most permanent jobs at European universities allow you at least 50% time for research. There’s hardly anything in mainland Europe equivalent to the typical U.S. teaching school where you’re on a 4/4, constantly worrying about making sure students like you (because you’re toast without good evals), and barely do any research. It’s too bad the U.S. system is so broken.

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  7. it can be pretty bad

    “Most permanent jobs at European universities allow you at least 50% time for research.” Again, specify where in Europe. It is common to have 30% or even 20% research time at many universities in e.g. Scandinavia. You can in theory buy yourself more research time by getting grants, but grants are not easy to get, and good luck keeping up with your research when you’re teaching something like a 3/3 or 4/4 plus applying for grants…

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  8. Dutch

    I just started a permanent job at a university in the Netherlands, our standard load is 60% teaching, 30% research, 10% service. It doesn’t feel like the teaching load goes down once you become more senior, although a grant would help of course. Many of my colleagues work more than 40 hours a week to actually manage all their teaching/admin and get some research done, and the high workload is an important talking point in the national conversation around universities. I personally haven’t had such problems yet, but I think for a full-time permanent job here you need to be energetic and efficient.

    Reply
  9. chill

    You don’t yet know enough philosophy to know which bits of it actually, as opposed to superficially, interest you. Do an MA at the best place you can, get into the best PhD programme you can…….then and only then should you start thinking of yourself as interested in X.

    Reply
  10. EuroProf

    I can only speak about the situation in Germany since I’ve spent pretty much all of my career there.
    My teaching load is the standard 9 hours per week per semester (for full professors) which translates to a 4/5 in the American system. Class sizes differ. Usually, I have two or three larger classes with 25-40 students and one or two smaller ones with 10-15 students. Not all of those students end up writing term papers, but usually, I will be grading about 60-70 papers (usually around 6k and 7k words each) twice a year. In addition, I supervise several BA and MA theses each semester and I have a couple of PhD students. I’ve been doing this for quite some time now, so I don’t need that much time for class preparation, but I’d say on average I still work about 15-20 hours per week for all things teaching-related (including answering student’s emails).
    Writing grant applications is important, and if you want to get tenure, you’re expected to at least try to secure a couple of grants. This is time consuming and (at least in my experience) boring and pointless since it requires you to do a lot of research to even be able to write a good proposal only to have it rejected. I’d say writing a good proposal for a medium-sized project (think something like one PhD and one PostDoc position for three years) takes as much work as writig a serious journal paper.
    Administration is also a significant part of my work. This includes: sitting on finding committees for vacant positions, the library comittee, the IT committee, the faculty committee, and a couple of others I don’t remember right now.
    Every couple of years, our BA and MA programs have to be reviewed by an eternal agency (a process which is call accreditation). This requires the faculty to produce a book-sized description of their programme down to the smallest detail, justifying everything and explaining what it is we’re trying to accomplish with our program and how we will address issues that were mentioned last time… Needless to say, this also creates a huge amount of administrative work that everybody hates. Also, since every program in the whole republic needs to go through accreditation every five years, you will frequently serve as an external reviewer for your colleagues’ program.
    Add to this stuff like writing reference letters for students, writing reviews for PhD students who want to get a scholarship, writing reviews of someone else’s grant application and a whole bunch of everyday intra-faculty problem-solving, and you’ll end up squeezing a little bit of research into a couple of days during the summer or winter break when the grading is done and the grant applications are submitted.
    As I said in my previous post: now that I actually am a professor of philosophy, I’m doing way less philosophy than when I was a PhD student. And I don’t think I’m a particularly unusual case.

    Reply

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