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Tips for an American PhD in a European postdoc?

In our most recent "how can we help you?" thread, a reader wrote:

I got a multiple-yr postdoc in Europe, PhD from the US. It's primarily research based with opportunities to teach once or twice. Since I know relatively little about European postdoctoral positions, can people chime in about their first- or second-hand experiences with European postdoc duties and expectations? I'm interested in the following questions:

(1) Are European postdocs expected to stay in the region outside the regular semesters? For example, during the PhD, I could go wherever I wanted during the summer and do my thing. This is probably normal with VAPs/tt positions. Will I be fine if I want to return to the US during a portion of the summer, for instance, when activity is low and focus on research there? How can I best approach that possibility?

(2) This is my first time as a postdoc, let alone abroad. For the PIs in the audience with postdocs, what're some things postdocs have done that contributed uniquely to the project and to your excellent recommendation of them to colleagues or in letters?

(3) Anything else you might want to add about european research postdocs? I've heard anecdotally about the european postdoc "trap" though I have my concerns about that terminology. What to really avoid?

Great questions, though I'm not well-positioned to provide any helpful answers.

Do any readers with experience have any experiences or insights to share?

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6 responses to “Tips for an American PhD in a European postdoc?”

  1. Elizabeth

    During my Swedish post doc I was able to leave for the summer. In fact, veryfew people were even around over the summer. I don’t know if that’s generalisable or not.
    In terms of the “trap”, it’s true that many people move from post doc to post doc for many years, even 10+. It’s only a trap if you let it be though. You can always choose to leave academia if you don’t get a permanent job in your preferred time frame.

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  2. EuroProf

    Just a reminder that Europe is a whole continent with dozens of different countries and about as many academic cultures. There are huge differences between doing a post doc in Ireland, in the Netherlands, and in Germany. Experiences from someone who did a post doc in Norway won’t be very helpful if you’re going to France. So, if you want significant advice, it would be better to name the country you’re going to.

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  3. Aleksei

    Speaking from a Dutch experience here as recently finished postdoc.
    (1)As a postdoc, you are even more independent than a PhD. If you want to leave for the summer, you can do so even more than a regular employee, but find out what courses you are teaching because this dictates your schedule above all. You can work remotely for a large chunk if your PI is OK with this. However, keep in mind that, for salary purposes, you need to be based in that country and have a correspondence address there at all times. Usually, HR cannot pay your salary without a legal residence. This means, even if you leave for the summer, you still need to keep that rented place. Most PIs are flexible and OK with online meetings, but it depends on the person, really.
    (2) It all depends on the PI: ask them up front how many papers they expect you to publish for their project, how much freedom you have to craft your own research direction, in what kinds of journals do they envision you publishing, and whether they expect to be co-authors. Do what they expect of you, and that’s it.
    (3) Seek opportunities to teach more and be useful, to be a good colleague for that department. When a TT-er job arises there, you should be seen as a nice colleague to have, a member of the community, someone who can do more than research. You can also use your time there to discover if you actually want to stay in that department long term. Postdocs are evaluated based on research but if you are not visible to your colleagues, when an opportunity arises, they won’t think of you as a good fit for their department. The postdoc trap is when you choose to do research on your own and pass through departments like hotels, signing in and signing off, basically staying invisible and apart.

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  4. bird

    I recently held a multi-year post-doc in Germany. I agree with EuroProf that the country will matter quite a bit, but here is some info from my own experience:
    (1) My research group was quite flexible about online meetings and traveling back to the US during breaks. It depends on the PIs and the norms of the research group. You can ask the PIs about the norms and also observe whether PIs or research group members are frequently away over the summer. Aleksei is right that you will need to remain based in the country. Not sure if this is relevant: My partner stayed in the US and the air travel, two apartments, two health insurance policies, etc. quickly ate up the better salary compared to some US post-docs. You may want to save a bit of money to pay US taxes the first year. The US has some requirements for qualifying for foreign earned income exclusion and under some circumstances, you may owe double taxes.
    (3) I’m not really familiar with the idea of a European post-doc trap. I will say that I found it difficult to be on the US TT job market while in Europe. Some schools did not accommodate the time difference when interviewing online.
    The bonus of a European post-doc is that you can now tap into another network of philosophers! I enjoyed getting to meet new folks and attend conferences I wouldn’t have been able to as a PhD student. However, if you’re aiming for a US TT job, it would be prudent to make an effort to attend major North American conferences and stay visible to that network of philosophers too.

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  5. sahpa

    I was also on a postdoc in Germany.
    – Everyone above is absolutely right: it depends on the country and, especially, on the PI’s expectations. My PI expected regular in-office work, and was not keen on people just going away for two months during summer, unless, for example, they were invited visitors to another uni.
    – To echo bird: you are technically still on the hook for US income taxes, but the taxes you pay abroad will be credited to your bill in most normal cases, and, since European taxes are higher than in the US, you will most likely owe the US government nothing. But you still have to file! I didn’t know this and had to do it retroactively for several years’ postdoc salary. h&r block has a decent ‘expat tax’ service you can use online, which I used for the first one and then just copied the format for later ones.
    – I also don’t know what this ‘postdoc trap’ is. Perhaps the issue is that assistant professor/TT-track positions are not always as common in Europe. For example, in Germany, the standard model (read: no longer realistic) is that you postdoc for six years, during which time you habilitate, and then you get appointed to a fully tenured Professorship. So they don’t standardly do TT, assistant professorships, but instead longer postdocing (nowadays they are introducing ‘junior professorships’ that are more like assist. profs in the US, but this is new and not standard). I suppose this may be a ‘trap’ in the sense that you might get aged out of US TT positions by postdocing so long, and then find yourself noncompetitive for tenured positions at the end. If you want a TT position in the US, you’ll just have to apply during your postdoc years to work both markets simultaneously.
    – On this last point, actually, you may encounter some resistance from your PI if they’re out of touch. For example, they may think ‘the done thing’ is to be a faithful hardworking postdoc for 6+ years, and so think that somebody applying out to TT jobs is being overly careerist. You may need to navigate that somewhat delicate situation, but it can be done. I think the chance of encountering this is relatively low, though.

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  6. PI

    a PI here:
    -I expected my post doc to be in the department most days of the week … but where I work, we have generous holidays, and my post doc was completely free to be where they wanted to be then (and we also did not work in the evenings)
    -I wanted my post doc to work with me on the project that was paying their salary … and I expected them to be creative about it, suggesting lines of inquiry we can pursue, and taking the initiative on parts of the project
    -I also accommodated their own research projects (probably more than I should have), projects that preceded their employment with me
    -one challenge that North Americas face in European post docs is that they are slightly disadvantaged with the American job market. The time difference is just the most obvious example. But some institutions are unlikely to pay for someone to come from Europe for an interview.
    -Generally, Northern European post docs are a great deal … good pay, good working conditions, in stable and safe places … and lots of support for conference travel
    Good luck with it

    Reply

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