The Philosophers' Cocoon

A safe and supportive forum for philosophers.

Owned & Moderated by Marcus Arvan (University of Tampa)

Contact: marvan@ut.edu

Blog mission & moderation policy

IMPORTANT NOTE on how to ensure anonymity in commenting
Job-Market Reporting Thread (2025-26)
Job-Market Discussion Thread (2025-26)

recent posts

about

Are TT jobs worth all the trouble?

In our most recent "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

I love philosophy, and I love doing it at an academic level, but lately, after seeing all the struggles people go through to get (and keep) professional philosophy jobs at universities, I've been wondering what people find so attractive about the tenured philosophy lecturer role that makes people think it's worth all the trouble.

I'm currently a doctoral student (about to move to stage B) and I work a full time job at a local school. I find that I have plenty time to read, write and publish good philosophy, and I'm hopefully getting tenure at my school by the end of next year (with no tenure-portfolio requirements). I believe that many people who break their back to try to get TT'd or tenured can much more easily obtain and enjoy a position like mine.

What makes people lose sleep over getting a philosophy-lecturer job at a university? The funds? The freer schedule? The peers in one's department? The academic environment? I personally could do without these, except maybe the peers. I would like to have a chance to talk to other philosophers more frequently, but I don't think that I need a job at a university for that. (On a side note, it would be nice if we independent scholars could have some organized way to know about each other and get in touch, maybe this can be discussed in a separate post.)

I'm genuinely very curious to hear what it is that makes some people value a philosophy job at a university so much, and I'd like if people can share their personal reasons.

This is a good query, thought I suspect answers may differ widely. In my case, I lost sleep over getting a TT job in large part because I didn't have any "plan B." I had no idea what kind of job I could get outside of the academy, as I hadn't really prepared for anything else. Then of course there is the sunk costs issue (working toward a particular goal for a long time and then abandoning it can make everything one did to pursue it feel like a waste of time). But another big part of it was that I just love philosophy, and have simply always deeply wanted to devote my professional life to it. All that being said, although I am now happy in my career, there have been many, many times in my career when I've been deeply ambivalent about whether a TT job is "worth all the trouble," and I know a good number of people who have left the academy who report they are much happier with jobs in other industries.

Do any other readers have any helpful experiences or insights to share?

Posted in

18 responses to “Are TT jobs worth all the trouble?”

  1. academic migrant

    For me:
    a) I decided to leave my home country for reasons. This left me without a plan B for most of my time. Having a phd in philosophy doesn’t really help getting a job on a skilled migration list, apart from being paid to do philosophy at a university.
    b) I was very very spoiled by my phd institution. The community, the visitors, the events, everything just felt like OMG doing philosophy with so many awesome people can be so awesome.
    c) I want to teach some grad students who will then move on to teach more grad students. I guess this is probably irrational, but I think it’s rather cool, to be on some philosophical family tree.
    d) When thinking about leaving, when the market was particularly harsh, I felt unhappy that the small subfield that I have invested so much would continue to develop without my small input. Feels like not being able to be part of the team anymore.

    Reply
  2. J

    “I was looking for a [TT] job and then I found a [TT] job, and heaven knows I’m miserable now.” – The Smiths, kinda
    As someone who spent years on the job market and luckily landed a TT job, I will say that the TT/tenure thing is incredibly valuable for job security (or at least the perception of it), and for other sorts of prestige-y things. Beyond that, it doesn’t mean much. It’s way overvalued: most of us are paid primarily in this currency of ‘prestige’ instead of actually making more money. (I realize this might reek of privilege, and those in non-TT roles might roll their eyes; but I’m just telling you what it looks like from my side of things.)
    I see my friends who left PhD programs or the job market rat race and landed pleasant, challenging, and higher-paying jobs in industry, and I have a significant amount of envy that they have location-flexibility, the ability to find other jobs in their field if they get bored of theirs, make more money, get vacation time that isn’t just in the summer, etc.
    Incidentally, I know a lot of people who left philosophy who do better philosophy (though in somewhat different forms, of course) now than they would have had they stayed in academia.

    Reply
  3. Chatty

    I don’t think there is a single answer to this question. It depends not only on person, but on institution.
    My first TT job was not worth it. The job was not terrible at all. A reasonable teaching load. Reasonable research support and expectations. Meh but not horrid location. But I had no meaningful colleagues. It turns out what I love about this job is the ability to talk about this stuff with smart interested people. I don’t hate teaching– sometimes I even really like it. But I don’t want to be a teacher primarily (if I didn’t do this I would not go work for a high school, say, unless I needed to eat). And I’m eh on writing most of the time. But I love talking with peers about philosophy.
    That’s what other jobs don’t have. Consulting and law and industry of all sorts are full of smart people doing cool things with greater ease and better pay. At the margins you can have really neat conversations with those people. I have wondered about those things. But what kept me in is the moment when I think “I have tried my best at this argument and you have bested it or added to it.” I love the verbal collaboration and even competition of it. Sometimes I’m sitting in a workshop or a conference and I’m like “it’s so weird that they are paying me to have this conversation.” And this job (mostly, sometimes) tracks things I think are worth, or worth-ish tracking. (The other jobs that I thought about probably wouldn’t or would have required me to make more ethical compromises than I would like to)
    Is that worth it? So far, it is to me. But that doesn’t mean it is for everyone!

    Reply
  4. odd ball

    I worked in another field previously … just for a few years. But I did four years of training to do that. That career was not satisfying in many ways. It did not engage me intellectually, and it was somewaht superficial with respect to values. So I retrained … as a philosopher. I was five years on the market before I got a t-t job. It has been worth it ABSOLUTELY. I love the work. I enjoy teaching, and the challenges of teaching effectively. I even believe teaching is a calling of sorts (even though I am not religious … who is calling?!). I also love reseacrh. I enjoy the process, and I am honored that I am paid to do it. I get a thrill every time a paper (or book) is accepted for publication.

    Reply
  5. Alyssa

    I’ve got kind of a weird perspective – I left academia for industry work and got two good corporate jobs, making great money in a great location. But I was ultimately very unhappy and returned to academia. In industry the hours were just as demanding as academia, and were significantly less flexible. I had to report every minute of my day in 15 minute increments to help the company meet metrics, etc. Having a ‘boss’ who I had to check in with whenever I needed to go to the dentist, therapy, for a run, etc., made me feel like a kid. The work (for me) had none of the intrinsic value or satisfaction of teaching or doing philosophy, and I missed having philosophical/academic peers.
    There are certainly non-academic jobs that have more autonomy, are more flexible, have a great salary and peers, and have intrinsic meaning. But my sense is those are just as hard to land as academic jobs, and might have even required additional schooling (and I wasn’t interested in taking on debt).
    I got lucky in academia and found something TT, but if I hadn’t, I would have figured it out and been happy enough. But I think there are very good reasons to prefer academic employment, and I think it’s a little silly when people pretend it isn’t a very special kind of job and life.

    Reply
  6. Young SLAC Prof

    Here is, in my view, the value: it is my job to do the cool things OP mentions, viz., read, write, and talk philosophy. Between undergrad and graduate school, I worked full-time and did philosophy ‘on the side.’ It kind of sucked; I wanted to just be doing philosophy with colleagues and other interested experts.
    If you have enough energy to have both a full-time job and do philosophy (read, write, conference, etc), go for it. But I am just a normal human being. Supposing some basic things about a tt job–decent enough pay, decent colleagues, decent location–I think it is worth it insofar as it makes one’s job at least substantially about what one is passionate about.

    Reply
  7. all the salt

    FWIW, and we as know, certain states are have enacted or are aiming to enact Higher Ed reforms that will allow them, when they see fit, to eliminate programs and thus fire TT professors. So I would take any comment suggesting that a tt job is much more stable/secure than non-TT contract work with ALL the salt.

    Reply
  8. Temporarily Embarrassed Prof

    As a PhD currently working outside of academia, I miss the autonomy I had as a graduate student and in my non-TT jobs. Working a corporate job can be infantilizing in how you’re monitored and supervised, and its especially frustrating to be subordinate to people who you would not be subordinate to had you followed a more conventional career path.
    It’s also hard to find work in the private sector that’s equally ethical. Jobs like consulting, finance, and big tech are frequently insipidly amoral, or even worse, sometimes immoral to do.
    Granted, there is plenty of work in non-profits or the public sector that is worthwhile and morally permissible, but many of these jobs come with stress, low pay, and low prestige that years in academia do not prepare you well for. Being a social worker or a teacher, even if it does not require retraining, is going to feel like a major step down the socioeconomic scale from being a TT professor.
    It’s also frustrating to be around people who, while very sharp and formally well-educated, are uncultured and uninterested in philosophical questions. I hate to admit it, but it is unfortunately possible to be a great marketer and write good advertising copy while being an abject philistine. This also includes a lack of critical thinking about the ethics or meaning of the work.
    As for staying in academia without being TT, the biggest downside I see is feeling like (at least for me) that I’m stuck on the JV squad. While non-TT faculty at most schools have plenty of autonomy still in how they spend their workday and teach their classes, you still have no say in departmental affairs and no right to your job in the long term.

    Reply
  9. Bill V.

    Mostly echoing comments already made, here are some things I appreciate about having a tenure track job. Autonomy is top of the list: I choose what I work on, when. I’ve been lucky being in departments where I’ve had a great deal of choice about what I teach, and without unduly burdensome committee work. I love that my job is to think about things I want to think about. It also gives me a great deal of freedom: I teach a Tuesday-Thursday schedule (and/or online), and that’s only 30 weeks of the year. The rest of the time I can do what I want to do. I enjoy the teaching, though it does have its frustrations. The pay is not bad in most cases, or at least decent enough. (If you can swing it, do what I did: After tenure do a stint in admin, and then negotiate a higher salary when you return to faculty.)
    There are definite downsides, and I think the upsides don’t always overbalance these, depending on the person and the circumstances. Most TT jobs are in lower prestige, lower pay, not-first-choice locations. Not being able to choose where one wants to live has lots of other consequences, most of which are negative. For example, vicissitudes of location can make finding an appropriate life partner more than challenging, and you might have a very difficult time making friends and finding community in a lot of places. Colleagues can be great, except when they are not; even when they are well-meaning, it can be hard to connect because everyone is a “free agent” and busy with their own things. Depending on your goals, how demanding local tenure standards are, how comfortable you are with coasting after tenure, and so on, a major problem can be that the work never ends, it is never good enough, and you never get the recognition that you hope for. If you can adjust your mindset to recognize that most/all of those prestige-related goals are empty, ego-driven illusions, perhaps you can avoid some of the depressing aspects of the treadmill.

    Reply
  10. Maria H

    This is a European perspective, this is probably different in the US – but for me, one reason for not running away (even though I thought about it many times) is that having the title of professor really helps if you are a woman and you want to be taken seriously in public discourse. I had often considered whether I could become a free-lance writer and public speaker (I do quite a lot of this stuff), but realized that many organizations like to invite a professor, rather than some random public intellectual. That’s not the only reason, but it is one that has added to me sticking to the academic field.

    Reply
  11. A way out

    Jobs are lame. Figure out investing. Get rich. Do what you want. If you are a smart philosopher you can do well in finance. That’s what I’ve done. I now pay my own salary.

    Reply
  12. A way out

    You can start by listening to famous investors and getting a seeking alpha subscription. Don’t buy a house or spend money. Save everything. Invest everything. No emotions allowed. Apply tons of logic to everything you do. It works. You need starting cash though. Inheritance could work. Saving like mad can work. But you can start doubling your money every few years.

    Reply
  13. Intellectual wealth

    A TT job in a good philosophy department gives you the unique joy of being surrounded by really intelligent and passionate people almost all the time.
    That is quite uncommon nowadays… and no amount of money can buy it.

    Reply
  14. In for a penny, hopefully not going to get pounded

    @AWO: For those of us who are (hopefully) at least modestly smart and modestly logical, and hopefully modestly devoid of emotion, is there a recommended good intro to read? When you say “Figure out investing,” is this the rx, “start by listening to famous investors and getting a seeking alpha subscription”?
    There’s a whole lot of material out there, and plenty of charlatans and reddit Champions. I’m interested, whether as augmenting my career or replacing it. But I don’t know where to start…

    Reply
  15. A way out

    Yes, there are more charlatans and grifters than real investors. Philosophy is also filled with charlatans haha! That’s obvious due to the fact our journals are filled with boring drivel. But investing is a way out of the system. The market doesn’t care where you got your PhD. It doesn’t care if you are black, white, female, male, gay, or trans. It doesn’t care what some test said about how smart you are. All it cares about is if you make the right decisions. I started by listening to tons of content with real investors. Check out Adam Taggart on YouTube. Listen to Lance Roberts, Rick rule, and read Peter Lynch’s books. Use the AI and ask it questions. First step will be learning a new vocabulary and new concepts. Read tons of articles on seeking alpha. At first it will be very slow. You will have to look up terms all the time. If you can get a PhD in philosophy though you can do this. It took me years of self education. It’s not easy. But it’s basically free. I had 5.7% alpha last year. And long term 3.5% alpha. I am paid my salary by my investments in cash. I still write philosophy. But now that I have no pressure I can write what I want.

    Reply
  16. a way out

    There is a misconception about investing that it requires strong quantitative skills. My math ability has increased over the years, but it’s not the case today that you need to be a math wizard to succeed at investing. That’s because in the modern world almost every relevant calculation is already available to you online or you can ask the AI to do the calculation.
    Investing in 2025 is more about weighing reasons. You have to be able to assess large amounts of data and also ‘data’ that cannot be quantified and somehow come up with a decision. Investing is also about portfolio design where you manage risk adjusted returns. You have to control your emotions. You don’t want to get too greedy or too afraid, but you also need to understand how different investments are affected by market events.
    Once you learn what you’re doing you can make a lot of money. However, whether you can use this strategy to make it out in a reasonable time depends on two things:
    First, the capital you can invest. My situation is that I started investing in high school. I just kept at it. I also inherited a few hundred thousand. I just kept working at it and saving more of my income than I spent. For example, while I was doing a PhD I could have afforded a nice apartment, but I stayed in a cheap place with mold in the closets. This way I could save 1000 a month. It all adds up. When I realized that the job market was just horrible I left and dedicated myself to investing. I was able to double my money over Covid due to irrational fears.
    Second, your insight into good investment decisions. Investing is not a science. There is no equation you can use to select stocks that will work consistently. Philosophy is the same no? There is no algorithm for truth. So, at the end of the day, once you’ve learned what there is to know, the sad fact may be that you don’t have investor insight.
    If you don’t, then you should hire someone who does. You can still basically do this method, just a little more slowly. There are lots of good managed funds you can buy. The reason you can still get out this way is that your capital invested matters so much that you can afford to pay someone a fee if you just save, save, save. Forgoing gratification for years is hard though. Nevertheless, compound interest is a wonder of the world! Learn about how that curve plays out over time.
    In closing, I know that many people will say that what I did is not available to them. They have no inheritance. They can’t afford to save a penny. Quit philosophy. Get a job in tech. Make 150k a year. Invest 100k a year. In 10 years you’re out! Start working a side job while you’re doing your PhD and start learning investing along with your philosophy. That way if you can’t find a good job in philosophy you can switch to industry and have a head start with saving. Now, I completely understand that some people have no real hope of getting out of the system, but way more people can pull it off than are aware of it. I see some of my friends squander money like mad and make poor decision after poor decision. Most people are not rational enough to play the markets, and they seem to be unable to learn or unwilling.
    Anyway, investing worked for me. I am now retired at 40 and writing philosophy again. There are more options for your life than just playing the same game everyone else is playing. If you are good at that game, play it. If you are not, join a different game.
    Good luck.

    Reply
  17. Anony

    @a way out…
    Is this a bit? Did you really just give paragraph upon paragraph explaining how philosophers can make a bunch of money investing, and then say “I also inherited a few hundred thousand”? There is no way to downplay the significance of this head start when it comes to investing.
    Also, I am getting the same sense I get from anyone who feels confident that they can consistently beat average market performance: survivorship bias. A great many people try to do exactly what you are doing. Probability makes it incredibly likely that some will have success over long periods. This does not necessarily mean that they have some special knowledge/ability.
    This is not to disagree with everything you’ve said. The ideas of frugality and investing are sound suggestions when one can reasonably follow them. But the idea that philosophers can just use their intelligence/reasoning to beat the markets is unfounded. A great many intelligent people lose money investing.

    Reply
  18. a way out

    @anony,
    It seems to me that your issue is a lack of imagination. You can believe what you want. I am just sharing my experience. This is how I managed to produce an income for myself and gave myself a job.
    A few hundred thousand is not a retirement. Many people in America will inherit 100k or more, especially the kinds of people doing philosophy PhDs.
    You will know whether what I am suggesting is available to you or not. But there are ways of making a living that don’t involve traditional jobs.
    Good luck.

    Reply

Leave a Reply to Maria HCancel reply

Discover more from The Philosophers' Cocoon

Subscribe now to keep reading and get access to the full archive.

Continue reading