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Choosing between ‘Oxbridge’ or top-20 American PhD program?

In our new "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

I'm an American prospective PhD student deciding between a funded offer at Oxbridge and a funded offer at a top 20 US program. Would anyone would be willing to share their thoughts on doing a UK vs. a US PhD program? (Especially in light of the current political situation in the US)

I think I'd choose the funded offer at Oxbridge. Seems like the better program anyway, and there's no telling what's going to happen in the US. 

What do readers think?

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14 responses to “Choosing between ‘Oxbridge’ or top-20 American PhD program?”

  1. Tenured now

    It’s worth remembering that UK PhDs are significantly shorter than US PhDs, since they don’t include coursework. That gives you less time to publish before going on the job market – and we know what a role publications play on the job market.
    It’s also worth thinking about how much opportunity you’ll have to teach your own courses at each university – because again, teaching experience matters enormously on the job market. Most US PhD programs will build teaching into your program, and even if your program only includes TA work, it’s often pretty easy to adjunct classes at nearby schools. My understanding is that teaching is generally not built into PhD programs in the UK, and I’m not sure what adjuncting opportunities there are or what limitations your visa might put on you being able to take advantage of them.
    I’m making assumptions about the way that UK PhDs mirror Australian PhDs (where I did mine), so it’s possible that I’ve got some details wrong. The job market worked out for me even with virtually no teaching experience and no publications, but that was a decade ago. Things are much, much more competitive now. So I’d encourage you to at least consider those two things as you decide.
    Either way, congrats on both acceptances!

    Reply
  2. Gary

    It’s a shame but I predict that the US will, understandably, lose out not only on top faculty in the coming years, but on top graduate students as well. The positive side of this unfortunate American situation– for prospective graduate students–is that, given the continuing growth of high-impact English-speaking philosophy in Europe over the last two decades (esp. in Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, Germany, Austria), strong options for graduate education in philosophy outside of America are not in short supply. Oxbridge (or at least, Oxford) likely has an edge over the following (perhaps, for that matter, Toronto does too), but one could do a lot worse than pursue graduate work in, for example, Stockholm, Lund, Zurich, Aarhus, Munich, or Vienna.

    Reply
  3. In the UK

    I’m inclined to agree. However, maybe the following is worth noting: I don’t know the specific nature of the funded offer at Oxford / Cambridge. However, the standard PhD funding is for three years, at which point that is it. There’s no chance of extending (with funding).
    The issue is that it is hard to build up a very competitive CV in that time, especially in terms of publications. You’ll likely do a bit of teaching, but that tends to be seminars (rather than lecturing / running modules).
    I don’t know the US system well, but it seems that students can spend a lot more years doing funding PhD research / work, during which time they can publish loads more and gain lots more teaching experience.
    There may be a flip-side of the prestige gain of Ox / Cam, but I’m dubious about how much effect that really has. Also, the UK university sector is in a major crisis, which is only going to get worse, so you won’t be able to cash in your Oxbridge PhD in the UK (as there’ll be next to no jobs to apply for).
    In the past, a lot of PhD students graduating in the UK could hope to pick up one- or two-year teaching posts (or even a post-doc), but they’re rapidly disappearing too. It’s a horribly grim academic situation in the UK, I fear (but at least Starmer / Labour are not Trump).

    Reply
  4. academic migrant

    UK student VISAs have just gone up quite significantly, as the previous government obviously wanted to butcher higher education while the current one doesn’t have obvious intentions to fix it. (And who knowns how anti-intellectual/racist the next one will be…)
    I’m not sure whether Trump will be successful in driving prospective students into the UK, given how bad things are here. But in any case, do not expect the UK to be a safe haven for academics.
    Sorry this probably doesn’t help a lot, so maybe something positive: where do you think you will be happier in terms of living quality? supervisory fitness? how much money you will have after living expenses? and will you have enough time to become the publication powerhouse that might give you a slight edge on the crazy job market?

    Reply
  5. Michel

    Non-academically, the Oxbridge prestige counts for a lot in a lot of places. Unless the T20 is one of the better-recognized Ivies, I’d wager you can wring more juice out of it, including in the US.
    Though it’s worth noting that higher education in the UK is in some turmoil at the moment, too.

    Reply
  6. Oxbridge disambiguation

    One thing that’s relevant is which part of “Oxbridge” OP got into. In terms of Leiter rankings and general prestige, Cambridge is quite a bit lower than Oxford. So, if OP is talking Cambridge, is may make sense to do the U.S. program. If it’s Oxford, it’s a tougher call, and they should consider the other things that have already been brought up above.

    Reply
  7. southerner

    I assume that if OP is prepped for Oxbridge, they have a topic picked out and a good idea of who they will work with. If that’s true, I think the thing that would decide me is how that advisor’s previous students have fared.
    Other considerations: UK PhDs sometimes have a harder time with some segments of the US job market because they don’t have teaching experience. But Oxbridge might provide more opportunities to network oneself into a job outside academia, or into a well-regarded EU or US research postdoc.

    Reply
  8. stranger advisor

    The comparison, to a large extent, is about the specific programs, which follows the general rules (area ranking, placement, supervisors, funding), whether it’s a US or UK program.
    But the question seems to emphasize an interest in insight into political atmosphere and how that affects grad programs in US and UK. That, I have little idea. However, I am inclined to recommend the US one if you have preference for it before considering the politics. The reason is that if you have already an offer, my guess is that the politics is not going to significantly impact the terms in the offer. We faculties are doing everything to protect student funding (and when that fails, this should already be reflected in the offered terms by now). Regarding future placement, I don’t see how the politics will significantly affect the chances for students from a US vs UK program. In the current trajectory, all will be lower, but not comparatively.
    Even if I am wrong, I hope to pull the conversation into the direction that the OP seems (to me) to be particularly interested in.

    Reply
  9. To be, or not to be

    I think you should go to the Oxbridge school. Graduates from Oxford and Cambridge have a much easier time on the market (even in North America). But even putting that aside, I think it will be a great life experience, studying in the UK at one of the great universities. I have been a visitor at Cambridge, and many many people pass through, giving talks, etc. You will also have opportunities to visit many European cities, for conferences and holidays. Whether you have a career in philosophy at the end of the day or not, you will enjoy your time there, almost for certain.

    Reply
  10. consider job trajectories

    Another relevant consideration is job market preparation, if you would like to try to stay in academia. Look carefully at the job placement of the two departments and inquire about what type of job application support they provide. US PhD programs tend to emphasize preparing for US TT job applications. However, most people now are not getting a TT job straight out of grad school, even people with highly prestigious PhDs. My (secondhand) understanding is that UK programs prepare their grads students more for grant applications, which might give you a leg up in applying for European postdoctoral funding schemes – which seems to be the most stable part of the job market right now for recent graduates. Like Gary pointed out above, a lot of good Anglophone philosophy is going on in continental Europe and that’s also currently where most of the money seems to be for postdocs (speaking from firsthand experience).
    This is more nebulous, but I also believe there are many personal benefits to having resided in more than one country. Like others pointed out, the UK has many of its own issues but sometimes it can be refreshing just to get out of the bubble you were raised in. However, this is admittedly personality-dependent – some people have more difficulty with the distance from their family or cultural changes. If you haven’t lived abroad before it might be hard to predict how it would be for you. However, at 3 years the UK program isn’t an exceptionally long commitment.

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  11. sahpa

    US academia is incredibly precarious right now. UK academia also sucks, but for different reasons. In the short term, Oxbridge is probably more secure.
    In Europe, Oxford has a LOT of cachet. Anecdotally, I would say it has more cachet than Harvard, Stanford, etc. So you would be more competitive for positions in much more civilized countries than the US or UK. So in the longer term, Oxbridge (especially Oxford) is probably more secure.
    So, if it is Oxford, then definitely Oxford. If it is Cambridge, it’s a closer call, but I would still probably go for it.
    Sidebar: Why are you being coy? Is it Oxford, or Cambridge?

    Reply
  12. Hi

    @sahpa I’m into both Oxford and Cambridge but have full funding right now for Cambridge HPS (which also fits my research interests the best). Don’t know if that changes the calculus much. But regardless all these responses have been super helpful as I was mainly trying to get a feel for the differences in UK vs. US academia at this point.

    Reply
  13. blah

    The US is verging on totalitarianism, the rule of law has already failed. It is a very sick country.
    Whatever the UK’s problems (and there are plenty) they are one of few countries that has (perhaps) already peaked in terms of populism and is now on the downward slope back to something vaguely sensible. Given all that, if it were me, I would certainly pick Oxford, and I’d most likely pick Cambridge too.

    Reply
  14. Escape

    DT’s plan is to push at least 45 American universities (see footnote 1 for the list) into a consent decree. He executed this today with Columbia University (see footnote 2 for details) and will continue with this strategy next week. Additionally, note that universities have consistently failed to form an alliance in recent months, even though professors from many universities, divisions, schools, and departments have requested it (see letter in footnote 3).
    Thus, it is safer at this point to stay away from the US. Good luck.
    Footnote 1: https://www.ed.gov/about/news/press-release/office-civil-rights-initiates-title-vi-investigations-institutions-of-higher-education-0
    Footnote 2: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/columbia-consent-decree-trump-federal-funding-2f4c4690?mod=hp_lead_pos1
    Footnote 3: https://sites.google.com/view/we-must-leverage-the-strength/home

    Reply

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