In our most recent "how can we help you?" thread, a reader writes:

I'm a grad student (ABD) who recently had my first job interview. I'd be grateful to hear some advice from folks in the profession about whether turning down an offer from this job, assuming I received one, would be too risky. Here's my somewhat complicated situation:

My dissertation is virtually ready to be defended as the time of writing. I can graduate as early as December of this year. The job starts in August (next month). So, if I took it, I would move there ABD and wrap up my PhD in absentia. The job is a temporary non-TT lecturer position that lasts for three years and it pays decently well, especially given the low cost of living in the area. The teaching load is 4/4. There is no philosophy department. It's a small state university. My other option is to remain in my program for one more year (it will be my sixth year if I do). If I stay in, I'll have more time to produce publishable papers over the next year, as I'd only be TAing or teaching one class each semester. I already have one pub in a leiter top-10 (not top-5) generalist journal, another in a well-regarded but not tippy-top specialist journal, and a third in a specialist journal that isn't widely known. If I take the job, obviously I'll have significantly less time to add more good pubs to my CV. On the other hand, I'm from a program that is ranked on the lower end of the leiter scale (it is a top specialist department for my dissertation area, however). So, I'm worried that if I don't take this potentially decent opportunity now (assuming I receive an offer), I might end up with nothing, or with something worse, when it's all said and done. I know that there's a lot of luck involved with this sort of thing.

Basically, I'm weighing immediate job and financial security against the possibility that I can do better if I just keep my head down and write, write, write for the next year. Taking the immediate security could mean that I'm less well-positioned at the end of the three years to move on to bigger and better things. Choosing to turn it down, however, could be seen as a gamble — I'd be turning it down on the assumption that I *will* receive a better offer this upcoming round on the job market.

A few final things that factor into this: my spouse would be able to watch our small children full-time if I took the job. Currently, I spend part of my "working" hours every week contributing to childcare because my spouse has to work a part-time job (my TA stipend alone isn't enough to keep us afloat). If I took the job, I'd get back some of that time (about 8-10 hours per week). Still, a 4/4 will be more significantly more time-consuming than my current workload even after factoring that in. Another thing to mention is that I would have summer and winter breaks off to write if I took the job. I'm also especially worried that this upcoming job cycle will be particularly rough. My ultimate goal is a TT job at an R2 or good SLAC with something like a 3/3 or 3/2.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Another reader submitted the following reply:

It would be unwise to do anything on the assumption that you will do better on the market this coming year. For one thing, this coming year is going to be one of the worst years the job market has ever seen. Secondly, even if it weren’t, the job market is normally too unpredictable to operate on that assumption. From what you say above, it appears you would have a decent shot at landing a TT job in a normal year, but that outcome would be by no means guaranteed and the odds themselves of this happening would be difficult to discern, but I suspect no better than chance. This is not a criticism of you, this is a sober assessment of market conditions. In general, people in grad school are too optimistic about the job market. Perhaps the following will be helpful for comparison. Like you, I went to a Leiter ranked program but not one of the top ones. My program was also very strong in my area. I finished with 8 publications in pretty good journals (e.g.,Synthese, Phil Studies) and one in a top 5. I didn’t get a TT, I got a post-doc. Then I hit the market again with more publications and still didn’t get a TT job (although I got more interviews). Both years were pretty good job market years compared to what lies ahead. If you are going to make any assumption about job market outcomes, assume you will be on the marketfor at least five years and try to limit the number of times you have to immigrate (it’s expensive, confusing, and makes it hard to write). That assumption could prove false, but it is a realistic outcome and you need to be prepared.

I agree with this 100%. If I were in the OP's position, the answer for me would be clear: take the job. Getting any full-time job is a real win in a normal market, and like many I expect the coming year(s) to be the worst job market in a long time. Further, the job the OP describes would give them time: 3 years in a full-time position. And the importance of time like this should not be underestimated. It should not only give them time to publish more; working in a 4/4 job should make them more attractive for jobs at teaching oriented universities (including the kinds of jobs the OP mentions)–and most importantly, it would give the OP at least three more years to obtain a TT job. Conversely, there's a real risk that if the OP stays in grad school another year, they may get nothing. I'm not a betting man, but some bets are unavoidable and to me the one to make here seems pretty clear.

What do readers think?

Posted in

12 responses to “Take a 4/4 job or stay in grad school?”

  1. sahpa

    OP the most important thing to avoid here is counting your chickens before they hatch. You seem to be doing that both with this job, where you only got a (first round?) interview, and with your performance on future job markets.
    So, don’t count your chickens! Otherwise this is a no brainer: take the job if you get the offer.

  2. anon

    I wholeheartedly agree with Marcus and the other responder to OP’s question. The job market is absolutely brutal already, and even highly qualified candidates are having trouble landing VAP’s in cases, much less TT jobs. A 4/4 sounds like a lot, but if you’re able to teach mostly the same handful of classes the teaching becomes less time-burdensome over time.

  3. anon

    Three years is nothing to sneeze at, I’d lean towards taking it.
    Also, 4/4 often isn’t as bad as people suspect. Where I worked a 4/4 it was usually 3xintro constantly and then one other course per semester. Still lots of students to deal with potentially, but not as much prep as you might think.

  4. the ghost of job markets past

    Like the others, I say take it, and get off the market for a bit (or just apply selectively). When I was on the market decades ago, a friend of a friend was offered a TT job at a non-selective state college (with a 4/4 load). He took a fancy post doc instead. He then spent the next 7 years looking for a TT job … and ended up at a non-selective state college with a 4/4 load.

  5. Temporarily Embarrassed Prof

    I was in a similar position . On the whole, I wished I’d stayed another year at grad school. But, the experience with the 4-4 was still valuable.
    I graduated from a Leiter top 20. Even though my dissertation was ready to defend, I had one more year of funding and could have opted to delay graduation.
    Jobless and desperate, I applied to a 4-4 at a large flagship state university without a graduate program in late spring or early summer. I started to regret it as early as my first trip out that summer to look for housing.
    I ended up having a bad time for the one year I was there. Further years weren’t promised initially, but I could’ve easily stayed if I’d wanted as the chair needed the labor.
    Even though I was teaching at a flagship state university, the teaching experience was awful. The students were ignorant and incurious. They were disrespectful to a degree that left lasting emotional scars on me.
    I did manage to get some research done though less than I would have if I’d remained in place at my PhD institution. However, the mood at the department was bleak, with some of the TT profs dissatisfied with their lot in life and cynical, dispirited non-TT faculty spreading misery like the common cold.
    When I look back on the experience, I wish I’d stayed in graduate school. My quality of life, intellectually and personally, was much better in grad school. I got more research done in graduate school. Plus, the stress and expense of moving counterbalanced the material advantages for one year of higher salary.
    My biggest reason not to regret my choice is that I learned what I don’t want out of an academic life. I was shocked by how poor the pedagogical standards and quality of the student body could be at a state’s flagship public institution.
    Ultimately, I had good alt-ac opportunities, and I’m currently working in the private sector. Maybe my calculus would be different if I was going for broke on academia, in which case, maybe the stable perch would be worth it to give me a chance to keep applying for better jobs, keep doing research etc.
    Here’s a question for others: given that OP already has an amazing research resume, would it hurt them to go alt-ac and apply from there? Suppose they take another year in graduate school and get nothing on next year’s market. Assuming they can go alt-ac, is it much worse to be applying from an alt-ac job than to be applying from a 4-4 with no department?
    P.S. No one has mentioned that the job on offer for OP is not at a philosophy department. The big drawback here is a lack of colleagues for workshopping ideas, etc.

  6. OP

    Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful comments so far. In light of my own reflection, advice I have received from faculty, and advice received here, I am currently leaning towards taking it if offered.
    As for the commenter who advises against counting my chickens before they hatch: the reason I’m asking for advice even though I haven’t received an offer yet is that — given how soon from now this position is set to start — I need to be prepared to give an answer very quickly if I receive an offer. Also, for the same reason, this hiring process will not follow the typical “round 1, round 2, flyout” model. They need someone to fill this position ASAP. Also, I don’t see how I’m counting my chickens before they hatch wrt to the assumption that I’ll get something better. I mean, that’s basically the question I’m asking here, isn’t it? E.g., “Is that assumption warranted or not?”. Also, thank you for the advice.

  7. I concur with the “take it, if offered” consensus. The academic job market for the next few years is going to be terrible. OP already has plenty of publications to get a TT job: one or two more won’t make much if any difference. Getting significant teaching experience could make a big difference, especially since OP is targeting R2s and SLACs. If OP does take the job, do everything possible to finish the dissertation before the new school year starts.

  8. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned thus far is the question of whether one can be happy / satisfied with a 4/4 job for 3 years. I reached a point in my own job searches where I stopped applying to those types of positions because I did not think they would allow enough time for me to engage in other academic pursuits that are important to me, and I would have rather pursued a nonacademic career instead.
    I assume from what’s been said that the OP would be fine teaching a 4/4 and that the need for a decently paying job is significant given the childcare situation. Given that, I’m in the consensus that one should take a job if it’s offered.

  9. Michel

    The main issues with a 4/4 load are (1) the grading, and (2) the number of preps. Once you’ve taught a course a few times, (2) becomes much, much less significant. But also, when you start teaching full time, it’s going to feel overwhelming no matter how many courses or preps it is. Your first year at 2-2 will feel just as taxing as your first year at 4-4.
    (What will probably feel like a bigger difference is the time available for childcare, since a 4/4 is much less flexible.)

  10. Spousal Privilege

    Given the stipend doesn’t cover childcare, requiring your spouse to get a PT job, not to mention the requirement to move cities for the 4/4, I would say the choice is really more your spouse’s than yours. In broad terms you will be doing something you want to be doing (philosophy) either way – is this true for your spouse?
    As in aside, I found the “counting chickens” reply rather unfair. OP seems to be engaging in perfectly sensible planning that will save them from panicked decision-making down the line.

  11. Prof

    It’s a tough call. You can’t go wrong.

  12. Tom

    The job market next year is going to be dismal. Dozens of universities have straight up blanket hiring freezes; many others have informal downsizing going on. It is a very risky bet to turn down the job. You can always apply with it in tow, just as you otherwise would. It takes a long time to publish an article anyway, who knows if you would look much better on paper after one more year on the job market

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