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Giving up on applying to PhD programs?

In our October “how can we help you?” thread, a reader writes:

I didn’t get into any PhD programs the last time I applied, but I was lucky enough to get into a good MA program, and I’m now applying again. However, given the feedback I’ve received on my writing sample, I feel like I’m going to get rejected everywhere again.

I feel frustrated and desperate. Getting into a PhD program seems to be getting harder every year, and I just feel like I’m not smart enough to write a paper that would put me among the top 10–20 applicants out of a pool of 300. Doing philosophy really excites me, and I can’t imagine giving it up, but this PhD application process is really killing me.

I’m still going to apply this year, but should I give up if I fail again? Or should I keep trying? If I eventually get into a program, will things get better? Will I be able to enjoy doing philosophy without so much pressure? Is there any way to do philosophy without getting into a PhD program? I feel that I can only discuss philosophy (which I think is the most enjoyable part of doing philosophy) with people who genuinely care about it, and most of these people are studying or teaching philosophy. It’s just hard to discuss philosophy with people outside academia.

I was in graduate school so long ago that I don’t feel particularly well-positioned to offer advice.

What do readers think? Any helpful tips, experiences, or other insights to share with the OP?

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15 responses to “Giving up on applying to PhD programs?”

  1. Anonymous

    If you’re feeling frustrated and desperate from getting negative feedback and potential rejections already, just imagine that multiplied many times over years especially once you’re done the PhD and want to go on the job market because that’s how it’s going to feel a lot of times, because getting in isn’t the hardest thing, staying in, responding well to criticism, responding well to constant rejections from grants, conferences, journals, and later jobs, and more will be necessary. So decide whether that’s a worthy sacrifice for the opportunity to chat about philosophy. You’ll surely get deeper engagement with philosophical ideas in grad school, but sometimes these discussions I find to also be about the most useless technicalities that have drained the life of philosophy, and academia in ways demand this rigor. Nowadays, you can chat with chatbots, and get them to take the other side, and even emulate rigorous academics, too. Just my two cents.

    Reply
  2. Anonymous

    I think there’s many communities outside of academia where I can discuss philosophy at length. For example, both the effective altruism community and the rationalist community are found in most major cities and love discussing abstract philosophy. Many cities also have ‘philosophy clubs’. So if the thought is that you’d do grad school just to get a chance to nerd out about philosophy, I think that’d be too pessimistic a take.

    If discussions are not enough and you want to _publish_ philosophy, I think that is exceedingly hard without graduate training.

    I totally get feeling like you’re not smart enough to do philosophy at a level that’ll make you competitive for top grad programs. Many people feel this way, and I felt this way too (even moreso in grad school!). But I think that for me, that was partly rooted in a false belief that I need to be a genius to do well in philosophy. As it happens, I’m not a genius, and I still did well in philosophy – mainly by working hard, making good strategic choices, seeking out feedback, and becoming good at receiving feedback. I landed a TT job at a R1 I’m very happy about. I still think most of my peers in grad school were significantly smarter than me, but I no longer agonize about that. That doesn’t mean that your situation is going to be like that, but I thought it may help to share this experience.

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  3. Anonymous

    I’d say give it another try this year, and if it doesn’t work out, then figure out something else. There are ways to do (even more interesting) philosophy outside of academia. The job market is only getting worse, esp. with the demographic cliff looming upon us. But yeah, it’s kinda impossible to talk someone out of or into doing a PhD in philosophy. Life itself is a better teacher.

    Reply
  4. Anonymous

    I’m sorry the OP is in this frustrating and very difficult position. I hope I can offer a small bit of help.

    First, I’m wondering about what kind of feedback you’re getting that’s leading you to believe you’re not smart enough to write the kind of paper required to get into a PhD program. Feedback on worthwhile, promising papers can (for good reasons) be very critical, so you might be getting critical feedback that doesn’t entail your papers aren’t good enough. If appropriate, you might ask the people giving you feedback whether their feedback is critical because, e.g., your paper just lacks promise (if so, why?) or your paper needs that criticism to push it to the next level, say.

    Now, *even if* your papers really aren’t at the level they should be, you should *not* draw the conclusion that you’re not smart enough to write the right kind of paper. Finding your niche and learning to write good philosophy both take a lot of time–you certainly haven’t failed if you’re still working on these aspects of becoming an accomplished philosopher. (Beware of translating critical feedback into condemnations of your self or your abilities!)

    Of course, I know here you’re facing an urgent practical problem: producing a paper that will get you into a PhD program. I haven’t been on any admissions committee, so I’ll defer to others here, but I’d imagine that folks on such committees aren’t really looking for perfect papers, but for candidates who exhibit all-around promise through a variety of metrics (some but not all of which will be exhibited in aspects of the paper, etc., etc.).

    Here, before you get discouraged, remember that a good deal of luck is involved (necessary but not sufficient) in program admissions (and, plausibly, just about every academic accomplishment). I finished my PhD not so long ago, and along the way I spent time in two different PhD programs. The first program I was admitted to was the only program I was admitted to that year. A few years later, I applied out of that program (trying to ‘level up’) and didn’t get any offers. The following year I did the same, and I got exactly one offer (only after being waitlisted there!). The point: I’m not outstanding in any way. I was very lucky. You just need (in addition to a paper) a good bit of luck, so don’t be discouraged on the basis of past rejections. Especially since, if you continue in philosophy, you will experience a lot of rejections.

    All of this said, I would *also* strongly encourage you to consider what, besides philosophy, could make you happy (content, at least) career-wise, keeping in mind that pursuing an academic career comes with some steep costs (e.g., loneliness, financial instability), that are often enough covered in other threads on this site. As lucky as I believe I am, and as much as I also enjoy philosophy, I’m really not confident that it’s all worth it. (So it’s just worth being honest with yourself about this sort of thing–values and tradeoffs–over the years.)

    Reply
  5. Anonymous

    In my PhD program, there were plenty of really smart people, but the ones who did best weren’t the smartest. It was those who were most passionate about philosophy, the ones who loved nothing more than thinking and talking about it with everyone, nearly all the time.

    Daniel Dennett remembers that in grad school he often felt he wasn’t smart enough to do philosophy, that others could always “counterexample me to death” and generally catch and refute things quicker. He struggled to understand things and they got it instantly. But he learned that a senior Oxford don had written about him something like: “Dan’s not the cleverest chap, but there’s fire in his belly.” He also later got advice from Robet Nozick that getting things too quickly was a curse, it hampered Nozick’s ability to see the holes and hidden assumptions. But Dennett, who worked slowly and strugglingly, caught the kinks.

    Anyway, hang in there. And speaking of Dennett, why not do the MA if it’s a good place like Tufts, where you’ll get better feedback on a writing sample and PhD Programs will have more confident about you, having begun graduate work in philosophy?

    Reply
    1. Anonymous

      It sounds like OP already went to the MA program last time, and this time they are applying out of MA program and getting critical feedback on their WS from MA program people. (I may be totally wrong.)

      Reply
  6. Paul

    I am sorry to hear about the OPs frustration, and can relate. I basically won the lottery, a rigged game that is increasingly difficult to win.

    My large, private R1 with incredible resources just paused ALL hiring because of significant revenue shortage. So many small privates will die in the next 10-20 years, and right now even large state systems (Indiana, Penn State, Florida, the list goes on) are slashing programs, staff, and other elements to fix revenue shortages. Penn State’s is 124M AFTER offering significant buyouts that many faculty and staff took.

    These closures and shortages will make it increasingly difficult to A. get into a funded PhD program, and B. actually land a job.

    All this to say, I might be time to think about other ways to use your talents and passion. As others have said, you can discuss philosophy both online and in person without a PhD. You can also publish more popular work in blogs, substacks, and media outlets. Publishing in academic journals will be very difficult, but who cares? No one reads those anyway. You might look at the alt-career entries on this site and others. Sorry to be such a downer…

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  7. Anonymous

    A different kind of advice: apply to lower-ranked programs. They aren’t going to get 300 applicants. They might get 40 or 80. The odds are still against you, but they’re always going to be against you.

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  8. Anonymous

    PhD admissions can have a lot of noise and variance, but getting shut out multiple times suggests (not indefeasibly) that you are not at the level you need to be. Of course you can keep working and try to improve (or hope that you were just very unlucky in getting shut out) but you’re incurring serious costs (familiar economic and personal ones). Since these costs are normally taken as quite strong reasons to not go to grad school, I think in your case they should be given even more weight since you have more information than the merely prospective applicant as to your own abilities. All this said, I would definitely seriously consider finding another career path if you’re shut out again. (FWIW, it doesn’t really even get easier–once you’re in the PhD the pressure is to publish and write the dissertation, after the pressure is to get a job, publications, tenure, etc.)

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  9. anonymous

    Lots of great advice in this thread. As well, from the other side of doing the PhD, I would really encourage OP to think about what else might make them happy. I do not say this to be a naysayer. If philosophy is your calling and what makes you truly happy in life then that’s a really strong reason to keep trying. I did it and I am glad I did. But I saw many peers wish they hadn’t. The sacrifices are substantial. Even if you get into a good PhD program, that is just the beginning. You may also have to move city, many times, you will have very little say about which city or even country you eventually live in, you will have to face genuine uncertainty and stress about whether you will get a job, potentially for several years consecutively, meanwhile earning substantially less than you might in other pathways for critical early years in your financial development and with significant geographic repurcussions for any partner or family. It is not all negative. But it is a life path with many, many sacrifices that one does not always appreciate at the beginning. “You can achieve this! Keep at it!” is good advice for the self-doubt side of things, and it’s likely true, but it can obscure that you might have an easier and happier life if you didn’t.

    Reply
  10. Anonymous

    I am also sorry to hear about the OP’s frustration. I’ll say a couple of quick things for the OP’s consideration:

    First, the pressure doesn’t let up for a long time. I’m in my first year of a TT position at a SLAC with only a modest publishing requirement for tenure, but the pressure is still on to produce excellent work while handling a full teaching load and adjusting to life in a new town. That’s after five years of grueling work during my PhD. (I went to a very supportive program, but the pressure is still on to produce solid work, and rightly so.) I was very fortunate to get a TT job my first year on the market, but between the PhD and attaining tenure, that’s 10 years of substantial pressure after getting into a PhD program in the first place. (For what it’s worth, I still managed to love graduate school, and life as a professor can be very fun and rewarding, but the stakes are still high.)

    Second, I concur with the advice to think hard about other careers, only because being a philosopher is still a job. Even if you love teaching and writing, that’s only part of the job description (committee work sucks just as much as everyone always says), and it’s a job where you will almost certainly make far less than you could in other fields. Even now I’m thinking about whether I want to stay in academia forever. Unless you get a job at a very wealthy institution in an area with a low cost of living (if there are any such places anymore), a professor’s salary doesn’t go very far anymore.

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  11. Anonymous

    I spoke with many philosophers who had left academia about their experiences because I was seriously considering leaving myself when I was in grad school. Every single one of them seemed genuinely happy, but I can’t say the same about many people who have stayed in academia. I have a job now, but I honestly don’t think I’d necessarily be any less happy if I had left philosophy. So make of that what you will.

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  12. Bill

    Honestly, it only gets harder. When I think about the pipeline from undergrad to tenure, Minard’s visualization of Napoleon’s attack and subsequent retreat from Moscow comes to mind. There is a LOT of attrition at every stage, starting with applying to PhD programs. (It is not so much a “pipeline” as a sieve.) Many fewer people make it at each stage than have the ability to succeed at that stage, which is just to say that not making it is not necessarily a comment on someone’s intellectual ability or determination.

    It is hard to get into a PhD program anyway, and add the fact that now there is less federal funding for research at universities, which translates into fewer opportunities for funded PhDs. On top that, some programs may be admitting fewer candidates because there are so few academic jobs for their grads. There is a large backlog of PhD grads waiting to get the few jobs that are offered, so folks aren’t competing only with their own cohort. The non-completion rate for PhDs in Philosophy has been high as long as I’ve been around (30-50% if I remember correctly). These are all factors that need to be included in the deliberations.

    There is a hidden cost to repeatedly applying to grad school that I have not seen mentioned here: The longer you are not in a full time “real” job, the lower your lifetime earnings, of course. But more importantly, deferring saving for retirement even by a few years can make a massive difference to when/if you can retire comfortably.

    Going to a PhD program might still be right for OP. That’s something they should have serious and candid conversations with their MA professors about. (BTW, work with them until your writing sample is not weak, or don’t apply.)

    An alternative that would allow OP to continue to be involved with Philosophy is to consider teaching at a high school that has a Philosophy program or (more likely) a community college. CC’s generally only require an MA rather than a PhD (though many folks who work at CCs have PhDs).

    There’s a pretty large group of folks discussing philosophy on Substack, if that sounds like enough engagement for fulfillment.

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  13. A PHILOSOPHER NAMED SLICKBACK

    If you have a passion for research, that is, creating ideas, theories, finding problems in the literature, and overall expanding our knowledge then stay in the field. However, if you love just chatting philosophy, then go as far away from academia as you can. Chatting philosophy, at least for me, does not happen (and if it does happen its really minimal and not fun). I love producing work, its what I find fun, it is what motivates me. I hate giving talks, teaching, talking, anf even really thinking about ideas with other people. However, there is not other place, or even venue where my work can be taken seriously. I mean, for real, if I have never gotten a PhD, I would not have the legitimacy to publish my work (or even be heard) I would be, sadly, one of those hacks or cranks on PhilPeople talking about a my uNiFieD tHeoREY oF EvErYTHInG that no one reads. Look, PhD admissions will get harder, but so will the PhD (lots of people HATE it), and so will post the PhD. I know, at least where I am we accepted 3 people, friends elsewhere also accepted 3 people (this is becoming the norm especially with the GRE back). Would I do it all over again? Yes, but I am insane. I do not care about retirement, money, status, friends, family, I care about my work. So, I was already before the PhD poor and a nobody, I am still both but now I can actually do the work and publish at places without sounding insane.

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    1. Anonymous

      1. I concur with this comment. I am not good at chatting philosophy, but I have an unusually successful trajectory that is almost entirely due to my singular passion at researching and writing. (I am not particularly good at writing either, but just unusually driven about it.) Many bright, talented philosophers around me have a very hard time finding a job, not because they are less of anything important, but less idiosyncratic on this aspect.

      2. For me personally, my job/career is not wonderful, but it is extremely comfortable, and I don’t really feel that I am working at all. I mean, it feels fundamentally privileged. I haven’t even felt pressure of tenure. And the dissertation process was honestly like a disney ride: thrilling. Again, this is not about my ability or love of philosophy, but because I just want to write and publish, and genuinely enjoy criticisms on my papers.

      3. However, *even* with my profile of skills and personality, the future for a junior is very uncertain, because AI effectively lowers the value of writing and publication. So I am genuinely uncertain what good advice I could possibly give to people like OP.

      Reply

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