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Can a TT Assistant Professor job be negotiated up to Associate w/tenure?

In our new “how can we help you?” thread, a reader asks:

If a job is advertised as an assistant professorship, tenure track, is there any room for them to hire an associate professor with tenure? A job in the U.K. was advertised that is exactly my specialty. I’m an associate professor with tenure, and I’d be interested in working at that university, only I’m not willing to give up tenure. Is it even within the realm of possibility that they could hire me with tenure, or once the job is advertised a certain way, as only tenure track, does it need to stay that way? Thanks in advance for your help.

My experience is that the answer generally seems to be “no”, but I don’t know if exceptions are ever made, and if so, how common it is.

Do any readers have any helpful insights or experiences to share?

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7 responses to “Can a TT Assistant Professor job be negotiated up to Associate w/tenure?”

  1. kaninchen

    I’m junior to this person, but my approach would just be to apply and see what happens. Worry about negotiating an offer once you have one in hand.

    Also, my understanding is that the UK doesn’t use a tenure system; rather jobs are immediately permanent. I’m not sure which job this would be, but if it’s posted on philjobs, sometimes jobs will be listed as “tenure track or similar” just because that’s the provided option for an entry level professorship/lectureship even if the country does not use a tenure system. So unless this is a very unusual job posting that directly explains that a tenure system will be used, you shouldn’t need to worry about losing the permanence of your job. However there might questions about your job title and starting salary.

    Reply
  2. R1 prof

    Exceptions can be made. Apply.

    Reply
  3. one more view

    Where I am, such a negotiation would not be possible. If they were going to hire a associate professor, they would expect a very different applicant pool than those who apply when they advertise for an assistant professor. So such a hire would be blocked. Indeed, this is why some department advertise open rank positions – they really want to consider the whole range of candidates.

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  4. Elizabeth

    Tenure doesn’t exist in the UK. That being said, if the job is advertising an Assistant Professor/Lecturer, then yes, sometimes it can be negotiated to hire at Associate/Senior Lecturer since promotion from Assistant/Lecturer to Associate/Senior Lecturer is not a very arduous process and usually happens within a few years anyway. On the other hand, they may be specifically looking to find someone very early career for other reasons, in which case it won’t be negotiable. You could either apply and see waht happens or get in contact with them in advance to feel out whether this is an option or not.

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  5. UK-Based

    If this is about the UK, then sorry, contra R1 Prof, exceptions cannot be made. If it is advertised as Assistant Professor, then they can only appoint at Assistant Professor. We’ve had people ask this for jobs at my uni, and we’ve had to say that we cannot appoint at the more senior rank unless it was included in the advert. This is due to legal restrictions/employment law in the UK (at least as I understand it). If it can be appointed at any rank/across ranks, then the job advert will say this (e.g. Assistant/Associate; lecturer/senior lecturer). What they might do is allow your previous experience to be ‘portable’ such that you’ll stand more chance of being quickly promoted – that is something to negotiate if you get an offer.

    As another commenter said, the UK (with only a few exceptions – LSE I think??) does not use the ‘tenure’ system. Jobs will be advertised as either fixed term or permanent (sometimes ‘continuing’). If they are permanent, then they are permanent from day one, with the slight note that you may need to pass probation. But probation is **nothing** like tenure. Probation is mostly a tick boxing exercise – I’ve never heard of anyone having any issues at all passing it in a UK university. If you minimally do your job and don’t give the uni a very strong reason to fire you, you’ll pass probation.

    Reply
  6. AGT

    Standard UK lectureships are open-ended with a probationary period that is just a formality. But this is not tenure in the US sense, no promotion is involved, no tenure committee, in fact, nothing happens. You just get automatically confirmed in the position. Also, while a tenured position in the US is open-ended, it is, as I understand, (much) more than that. I don’t think in the UK there is anything else to ‘tenure’ but the fact that your contract does not run out at a pre-determined point in time.

    Having said this, there is tenure-track now also in the UK, which does mean evaluation and then promotion (possibly). But this is still nothing like the US tenure system.

    In short, the OP should not look at the UK system with US eyes. That is misleading. If ‘tenure’ for them means ‘open-ended’ that is all but guaranteed unless they are applying for a specifically tenure-track position and not a standard lectureship. They say this is what they are doing, in which case, however, as others have pointed out, I see little chance that any negotiation is possible since the department’s hands are tied in the matter.

    Reply
  7. Anonymous

    In the US, applying to an untenured position means being appointed to an untenured position. The position has been budgeted a certain way, there are equity concerns (both for other candidates and for current members of the department), and if they had advertised for the higher rank they would have had a different pool of applicants.

    If interviewed, you WILL be asked to confirm that you are willing to give up rank & tenure to take the position, if offered. (Any answer but yes will be effectively disqualifying yourself.)

    However, many places are willing to give “credit for prior experience” and will advance you along the tenure stream by a few years, meaning you can go up for tenure in a shorter amount of time than a truly junior person would. Salary is still going to be at the lower rank, but possibly higher than a candidate offered no credit for prior experience. But salary and tenure clock are matters for negotiation, usually with the Dean rather than the Department (often with Senate or Union guidelines ruling anyway). Only raise the issue after you already have an offer in hand.

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